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motopoet - > MARK'S WORLD -> Picket Fences
Picket Fences

I don't like In n Out Burger and I am glad there isn't one in the vicinity. My family, however, does like them, and once in awhile, asks me to get them some. The closest one to me is on Stockdale Hwy and that takes me past "protesters patch", better known as Stockdale Hwy and New Stine Rd. For anyone not from Bakersfield, that is the busiest intersection in town. They are always there. The anti Bush crowd, and it seems, they have been there since Jan. 21st 2001, the day after the innaguration. It has always been something from stealing the election to the War. It's OK. I think it's cool to see Americans exercising their right to dissent and voice or show their opinions, even when I disagree. The most common theme since 2003 has been "Impeach Bush". OK..I get it. They don't like or trust the president and it's good that they know their rights, but it's unfortunate that they don't seem to understand the succession of leadership in the federal government.

Do they think that by Bush stepping down or being impeached that they will be able to slip one of their guys into the breach? Or that Cheney will succumb to their relentless pursuit of their hatred of the other side? What about Speaker Hastert and the cabinet members, the least senior being Michael Chertoff, Director of Homeland Security? That is, by my count, eighteen people to get rid of. I am certain that, by then, the 2008 elections will be upon us. Actually, in the evnt of impeachment, I am not sure how far down the list they have to go.

In all reality, an impeachment is as unlikely as anyone stepping down. I remember when President Clinton was on trial in the Senate. I was terrified to think that Al Gore might become the nations leader by default and was glad to see Slick Willy aquitted. If the anti-Bush crowd thinks the country is distracted now, wait till we are putting priorities aside on articles of impeachment that will tell our enemies that we are more concerned with the hatred of an individual than we are about dealing with them!

If I were the one of the protesters, I think I might be compelled to protest the liberals(and I am not saying these folks are all democrats)for not coming up with some sort of plan to take the White House in 2008. Complaining about the perceived injustices of the past and dissent of the present will not insure thier victoty in the future. They need a plan and I have yet to hear one. There is a difference between being politically active and just being pissed and they don't seem to realze that.

I will say, in their defense, that they seem to be peaceful and are usually smiling. That's good. We should be able to disagree without incident. I do not shout at them or make silly gestures and I never will. I admire their tenacity, I just think it is misplaced. Bush will not be running again and it seems to me that they are wasting their time and resources by calling for his head on a platter and that their time would be better spent building up a viable candidate to carry out their wishes.

*SIGH*...All this just so I can go get food from a place I don't even like. I wish they'd just build an In n Out over here

Posted in these Groups:
Topics: protest, Politics, food, bakersfield, driving
posted by motopoet on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 at 06:31 PM
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26 comments from 12 users

1

posted by motopoet on Aug 15, 2006 at 09:29 PM

Well..That's why I sing, or more accurately, play the blues. People seem to forget that 9-11 hadn't happened in 2000. The world changed that day and I am glad it did. Not glad for teh attacks on America, but that Bush had the courage to take the fight to them. I fear that Gore would have turned it into a UN santioned, courtroom drama hoping for good poll numbers.

Mission WAS accomplished in the fact that we went to war with Iraq. That mean we went to destroy their ability and will to make war. We did that. Their military was decimated, it's leaders killed or captured and it's dictators deposed, killed and captured. The war we are fighgting there now is the war on terror. We are not fighting Iraq. The vast majority of the insurgents aren't even Iraqi's. I don't care if they want to listen to my phones..I have nothing to hide. If someone gets caught up in some domestic or unrelated criminal activity(which has yet to happen)as a result..well..don't do the crime if you can't do the time. I don't care if our enemies are tortured. You seem more concerned about the pieces of s*it than you are about what they do to our people. Let them suffer before heading off to their seventy-two mansions, bed and virgins. 

Clinton didn't misrepresent anything.. He perjured himself before a grand jury and Congress and lied to the Americans.Hmm..seems a recent president is being vivified by the left for teh very same thing..Lying is lying.. To be honest, I never gave a rats ass about the whole thing anyway. Had that been his highest crime, I would have high fived him. .Clinton DID spy on Americans. Aurora was his baby. I didn't care about that either. My drug dealing days were over by then and I had nothing to hide. I never hated Bill Clinton. He was kind of a non-event. NAFTA was Bush 41s baby and had he thought he'd have lost to Clinton, would have pushed it through in his first term. Clinton did manage to prove to the world that we lacked the resolve to defend our citizens here and abroad with his abandonoing the people in Somalia and every other battle we had to fight. He lack character and honesty. Hr may have talked to the people, but who could trust him That's OK..He was a politician. 

Damn In n Out.

posted by nancyg on Aug 16, 2006 at 07:17 AM
If always doing what the polls say is consensus, I guess that's true.
posted by randomfactor on Aug 16, 2006 at 07:46 AM

Nancy, that's nonsense.  Clinton was a consummate politician, a skill this country values far above leadership.  Despite that, his presidency will probably rank in the top third historically in terms of accomplishments.  Bush, by comparison, will come in dead last.  Clinton was acquitted because he was, in fact, innocent of the charges.
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I prefer a politician who listens to what the people want--polls--in contrast to one like the recumbent, who deliberately ignores the two-thirds of Americans who want us out of Iraq and embryonic stem-cell research funding.
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I don't want to see Bush impeached.  I want a Democratic majority in both houses and *CHENEY* impeached.  Bush isn't important enough to bother with.
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Mark, I don't see public protest as a good way to change political strategy.  I wish the Democrats had their act together better, but the way to accomplish *THAT* is within the system.   We've started the process in Connecticut.
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A good case can be made that President Gore would have *PREVENTED* 9/11.  Think about where this country might be today if our most important worry were global warming.  Come to think of it, our most important worry today *IS* global warming.

posted by steveeswenson on Aug 16, 2006 at 07:58 AM
Screw politics.

Let's get back to where this blog started -- In N Out Burger.

My son recently moved to Klamath Falls. Loves the town except for one thing. No In N Out Burger.

Sometimes we just don't realize how lucky we are.
posted by nancyg on Aug 16, 2006 at 08:10 AM
I wasn't talking about Clinton.  I will say however, that I may disagree with you but I don't discount what you say by telling you it's "nonsense."


Steve..You're RIGHT...all political discussions do is get people stirred up.  On the other hand..In n Out soothes the soul.
Ooops...except in Marks case where he doesn't like them.
I'm not a big burger fan but In n Out tops them all.
posted by anonymous on Aug 16, 2006 at 08:15 AM
Nancy
Nice Picture!
Audrey
posted by Hardliner4freedom on Aug 16, 2006 at 08:51 AM

Random wrote, "I don't see public protest as a good way to change political strategy."

 

You have no idea how encouraging it is to hear a (presumably) progressive Democrat say that.

 

As for whether Democrats have a plan, they unfurled one recently.  It even has a name.  But I don't blame Mark for not being aware of this.

 

With almost no real liberal voices in the media, the Democrats' plan didn't get much news coverage.

 

posted by robbwillis on Aug 16, 2006 at 09:11 AM

You'll definitely have to stop off here for a round or two on your next drive to Klamath Falls, Steve. Bring me an In N Out burger too...

.

Clinton, Bush, Bush, Clinton, nobody will be happy with the next guy either. And so it goes.

 

posted by randomfactor on Aug 16, 2006 at 09:23 AM
Hardliner, I want to be sure you understand me:  public protest--signwaving--is not, in my mind, an effective way to change the political strategy *WITHIN* the Democratic Party, except by supporting candidates who will run on the issues I want to see raised.  That's why I, a Californian who's never been to Connecticut, sent money to Ned Lamont to help defeat the ineffective and counterproductive Joe Lieberman.  That's why I sent money to Howard Dean, and am withholding it from the DLC/DSCC, DCCC.
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Heck, *I* have a plan for peace in Iraq, but nobody's listening.
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And Steve, I think In-n-out is *HIGHLY* overrated.  But I've learned not to discuss controversial subjects like that in public.
posted by dusty1215 on Aug 16, 2006 at 09:57 AM
Protesting is a way to be heard, its based in the theory that public dissention will at least make people talk about the issues..and perhaps get involved in solving them. Protesting is a method of addressing the 400 lb. gorilla sitting in the middle of the room that everyone ignores. Protesting merely shows the powerbrokers how many people are pissed off enough to stand in public and announce their opposition to tactics, laws and actions.

It serves it purpose I think.
posted by Hardliner4freedom on Aug 16, 2006 at 10:20 AM

That's a good point, Dusty, but my concern is it has been overused by the Left.  Overuse of a tactic lessens the impact of the protest -- and if it's always the same people protesting the same thing, it gets old and is no longer effective.

 

Protest, in my opinion, is most effective as a response to the threat or actual carrying out of a action or law that the protesters feel is abominable.  Say, for example, if Congress succeeded in passing the misnomer "protect marriage" amendment to the Constitution, a mass protest of clearly outraged and militant citizens is powerful.  It warns lawmakers, "if you do this, twenty million pissed off people are going to make your life hell."
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On the other hand, protesting on and on about the Iraq war is almost pointless.  To most passers-by, it's just background noise by outdated Sixties radicals.  I give the protesters on Stockdale and California a friendly, supportive honk (even though I think they are unrealistically simplistic and idealistic), but to most people, they appears as mere malcontents ineffectually waving signs.
.
Protest is effective when used judiciously.  In my opinion, the Left doesn't use it judiciously.

posted by ProgressivePete2 on Aug 16, 2006 at 10:40 AM
Protests only work if it is massive and if it gets media attention. There's nothing like seeing a huge group of people marching down the street chanting their slogans. If the news doesn't show up or doesn't show the footage, it was a waste of time. (Did anyone know there were daily protests in Dearborn, MI led by the heavy arab population protesting what was going on in the middle east?) I think that's why some groups resort to violence or major civil disobedience. Violence is the worst way to make your point, but civil disobedience (as used by Ghandi and Dr. King) are very effective. It just has to be on a large scale or nobody pays attention. As far as changing the strategy of the Democrats, bloggers have done more to change their ways than any other group. We have a voice and people are listening. Those that refuse to listen to the people (Lieberman) will be eventually replaced by those that will listen (Lamont). Howard Dean was the first person to embrace the blogosphere really, and it's making a difference in the way the democrats present their message and what their focus is. I'm with you guys though, standing on a corner waving a sign doesn't do a whole lot to change things. I am glad that someone is doing it though.
posted by motopoet on Aug 16, 2006 at 09:41 PM
I didn't say protesting was a waste of time. I said I thought the Bakersfield protesters efforts were misplaced. I think even my detractors agreed with that point. I am not going to get into what Clinton did and didn't accomplish. I am sure I saw his presidency as differently as you see Bushs'. That is the nature of having two sides. I would like to have someone show me a mainstream media example of an artilce that supports anything Bush or the right has done in teh last sixteen years. Desert Storm was the last time the media was friendly to a conservative.
posted by NancyII on Aug 16, 2006 at 09:55 PM
Thanks Audrey..It's blurry but it's the only one I could find that made me look better than I do.  Beside..the blurry hides the..uhhhh...character lines.
posted by steveeswenson on Aug 17, 2006 at 08:16 AM
Robb,
   I looked up your course on line. Looks nice so I will be happy to make a few craters on your greens.

Random,
   Thanks for fighting the urge to comment on controversial subjects.
posted by Hardliner4freedom on Aug 17, 2006 at 08:30 AM
Mark, here's an example:

When the media were discussing the replacement for Chief Justice William Rehnquist, one of the panelists on Meet The Press said flatly, "liberal judges are a bad thing, conservative judges are a good thing."  Nobody on MTP challenged that statement.

Same time frame:  Lou Dobbs, one of TV's more liberal commentators, had Robert Bork as a guest.  Not only did he fail to invite any guests critical of conservative judicial picks, but Dobbs basically portrayed Bork favorably as an undeserving victim of the Democrats.
posted by Hardliner4freedom on Aug 17, 2006 at 08:33 AM
I should add that the media -- all of them -- were solidly behind Bush after 9/11.  There were absolutely no anti-war voices in the media during our Afghanistan operations -- save one short-term exception. 

Phil Donahue was the lone anti-war voice for a while, but he was fired because (not saying it's the only reason) his bosses feared that his show would become a center for the anti-war movement.

(For the record, I supported our Afghanistan action.  However, the anti-war voice, however small during Afghanistan operations, still deserved at least one voice.)

Check this out, from all places -- the L.A. Times:
http://www.latimes.com/news...
Rosa Brooks: Antiwar Wackadoos Are Winning

"WHAT DO YOU have to do to get a little peace and quiet around here? It used to be possible to adopt an antiwar platform and be left entirely alone by most mainstream Americans. Sure, you'd be sneered at by the media, ostracized by the major political parties and, from time to time, your in-laws would accuse you of living on the radical fringe.
..."
posted by robbwillis on Aug 17, 2006 at 08:58 AM
If you're still nursing that 4 index, I'll start negotiating the strokes I get at 10... 
posted by gr8scott on Aug 17, 2006 at 09:08 AM
Bush will never be impeached nor will there be an attempt when Democrats control congress. That's just rhetoric. It's not about putting one of their own in the white house if Bush were ever impeached. 
It's about accountability.
posted by mattloch on Aug 18, 2006 at 09:50 AM
I don't care about impeachment, but how about an investigation or two? There's so much to look into, take your pick. It doesn't even have to be something big like Iraq intelligence failures, just something with some meat to it, like no-bid contracts in Iraq and New Orleans, or using the FBI and CIA as personal enforcers? There's plenty out there. Just start digging, and be sure to act quick before they start shredding everything and claiming "Super-Ultra-Hyper-Top Secret" to hide their tracks.
posted by motopoet on Aug 18, 2006 at 03:28 PM
There has never been a president who did not abuse his power in some way. According to history, Goerge Washinton was a very vengeful man and used his position to smack hie detractors around . It is the nature of men(and women) of power to use it to their advantage. It's only a matter of perspective that makes one person or another decide the abuse should be dealt with.
posted by ProgressivePete2 on Aug 18, 2006 at 03:46 PM
How exactly did Jimmy Carter abuse his power?
posted by NancyII on Aug 19, 2006 at 09:53 PM
It seems I ended up with 2 names.  NancyII, which is how I registered but it got messed up then fixed...and nancyg which is the name I logged on to the Californian a few years ago.  Apparently the picture is only on the nancyg name.  SOMEBODY HELP !!!!!
THIS IS NUTS !!!

Someone needs to make the maneuvering easer on this wacky blog.  None of the profile stuff makes sense either.  When I edit a post it takes me to an area where my past blogs were.  I say were..because now there are only a few and they aren't in chronicological order.  When I try to find that area again..I can't find it.  When I clicked on view my profile it took me to other peoples BLOGS!!!

Sorry to use your space for this Mark but I can't find Dans blog to register the complaint from the proper plave.   

GRRRRRRRRRR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted by nancyg on Aug 19, 2006 at 11:21 PM
See what I mean???
posted by nancyg on Aug 19, 2006 at 11:23 PM
The only way I found this mistake is when I was browsing through the profiles and ran across my picture with this name.  Somehow it's all mixed up but be assured...they're both me.    How the heck did this happen?
posted by motopoet on Aug 20, 2006 at 04:06 PM
Pete..You are very right! I stand(sit?)corrected. Jimmy Carter never USED his power at all. He will be remembered as, if not THE worst, then certainly one of the worst presidents in history. His heart was in the right place, but he just wasn't cut out to lead anything. He is the reason I became politically aware. He took office when I was a senior in High School and his lack of leadership was an oft discussed topic in our Government class and it only got worse as time went on.
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