In case you read this, Mark, I hope you'll come back often.  I relate to what you've said -- at least to some of it.  Whatever differences there may be are there because we simply have different lives and different experiences and we're simply different people altogether.  I can certainly relate to your view of the name-calling, etc.  It's a very large playpen where people throw verbal daggers at one another.  To a large degree I've removed myself from those sites.  It's just not worth it. 

As I said, I hope you don't disappear from the site altogether.  Otherwise it'll be another rational voice trailing off and vanishing into the distance.  

I wish we could see some of your poetry, but I realize how intensely personal poetry can be.  Sometimes the thought of sharing it with those who have no understanding or appreciation is simply out of the question. 

Look, Mark - if you so willingly acted the way that you are asking others to act, I wouldn't have a problem.. but many of the things you just listed that you dislike are the very things you do.  I'll be the first to admit that I sometimes get a bit harsh, but at least I'm willing to admit it.

Unwilling to debate based upon facts?  Hmm.. you often post anti-liberal hysteria based upon preconceived notions and illusions of grandeur, and not based in reality or fact.

Take a hard look in the mirror sometimes - you'll be surprised.

P.S. (added after original post):

Deleting your old blog post only shows your weakness.  Take this as constructive criticism.  If you're not willing to stand behind anything you post, and if you're not willing to receive the comments, why post it at all?

If anyone wants the recipe to the lentil and chicken broth soup that was deleted with Mark's last post, let me know.

--virgil

You don't read very well do you FSG?

Of course he reads well.  He's a Florida State Grad isn't he?

Nancy - funny enough, in deleting his last blog post, he also deleted an apology I made to you. 

Dream - That I am.

moto: I think this is a rational response directly in line with the last question I asked you in the now deleted post: "why do you do it? You must get so annoyed."

This action is exactly what I thought you should do, and I am glad you are doing it.

You are right about appreciating the rest of your life and valuing it above all this blogging stuff.

Kudos to you and god bless.

FSG, and you find that funny how?

 That I am.

fsg ~ ZING!  That one went so far over your head it didn't even mess up your hair

ROFL

moto

dont forget us, HARLEYS rule

always

kev n len

GO ryan

who cares what ANYONE says or thinks?  not you - not us.

so turn obnoxious moto..get back in their face..thats what i did..great stress relief..now instead of taking it to heart i laugh at the  idiots in my own way..their smugness turns into stupidity more often than not..HANG IN THEIR BRA!!!

Tuff talk Sioux.  Are you ready for another round?  I suggest you stuff that truss in your mouth so you don't get into trouble.

 FSG, and you find that funny how?

I find it funny because if your son had been less stubborn and gone back to this thread before deleting it, you just might have seen the apology. 

That one went so far over your head it didn't even mess up your hair

Yes, it went so far over my head that I couldn't see your dry attempt at sarcasm.  When dealing with someone such as yourself, whom I'm not so familiar with, I try to be a bit more civil and just ignore your feeble attempts to upset me.

Haha Sioux - come on down to Cataldo's on Thursday.. let's see if you're really ready for the Big League.

What did I miss???

One guy gets butt hurt and throws in the towel, another either getting his hair messed up or not and challenging folks to a duel?

I may try to come here more often.

Fed up with trash and getting butt hurt are two different things.  You might try to learn the difference gr8.

FSG, you're apology means nothing to me so I missed nothing.  Someone STILL need to pay you for the pizza.

Mark

Everything you said about blogging:

I am tired of people who call people names, then call themselves rational adults. I am tired of rude, arrogant, condescending people. I am tried of liars and phonies. I am  tired of people who think that a higher education makes them smarter than the next person, because it doesn't. It only makes you more educated, and that has little to do with the kind of smarts it takes to understand the world around you.

Most of all, I am tired of arguing with these people. These are not debates based on facts. These are not differences od opinion brought into discussion by respectful people. These are arguments. Time consuming, energy wasting arguments. Many are juvenile, some are downright childish, and I simply refuse to engage myself with these people any longer.

could made about Conservatives as well as Liberals.   Neither side owns the franchise on manners, maturity or facts.  

Blogging gets old after awhile.  You burn out, you come back.   You burn out, you come back.  You're the only person who can decide when you've really had enough.  And, I admit, things have been ugly in here for 18 months or more. 

I won't leave.  Not ever.  Your mother and I have outlasted dozens of other people who have found this site, came on strong then petered away when they couldn't run things the way they wanted to.  I imagine Nancy and I will also outlast people who are yet to show up here.  (there are others on here who date waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back too, I haven't forgotten you).

Sometimes longevity is the only way to make a difference.

So much for extending an olive branch.

Then again, coming from you, Nancy.. I'm really not that surprised.

It sucks to be butt hurt.

Totally bogus, dude.

Sorry FSG, wasn't meant to be sarcastic.  It was meant to be a hint than maybe you should read the part in the original post  . . . something about being educated not meaning you're intelligent.

nancyII made a comment about you not being able read very well

I said of course you can, you're a FSG

You said That I am

Okay, okay.  we get it.  We get you're a Florida State Grad.  Hard to miss when you're name on here is FloridaStateGrad.  (See how smart I am?)

The point is, oh, nevermind.  Come back and read this when you're 50 and you'll be emarrassed for yourself.

btw ~ I went to college too

the problem is exactly how audrey said in her post of 8:34, we are all rude, and I will be posting for a long time here, though I do like facebook more.

Msjenny

I can't imagine you leaving the blogs.  You're one of the stabilizing influences. 

*sigh*....we keep at *it* because we do make a difference.

"to err is human...to forgive is divine"

 Sorry FSG, wasn't meant to be sarcastic.  It was meant to be a hint than maybe you should read the part in the original post  . . . something about being educated not meaning you're intelligent.

I got it the first time, darling.  I chose to ignore it.  Next time, please don't make brash assumptions.

Okay, okay.  we get it.  We get you're a Florida State Grad.  Hard to miss when you're name on here is FloridaStateGrad.  (See how smart I am?)

The point is, oh, nevermind.  Come back and read this when you're 50 and you'll be emarrassed for yourself.

Actually, this only proves how people can easily take a pseudonym out of context.  When I created my profile on here, I made my name "FloridaStateGrad" not to rub my education in the faces of those who are not from an academic background - I go by this name because it really is part of my identity.  Not only am I an alumnus of FSU, I'm also a die hard fan of their football program, and have been since I was a child.  I didn't realize just how controversial such a nickname would be, for if I were still in Florida, the vast majority of people wouldn't give it a second thought - they'd know that not only am I a fan of the team, but I actually went to the University (unlike many University of Miami fans, for example). There's another blogger on here that goes by "CASOONER" - and it has a similar connotation - he's a fan of Oklahoma.  Can't remember if he went to school there or not, but it matters not.   I never meant for this name to come off the way many on here have assumed.  However, I refuse to change the name, regardless of what you or anyone else thinks.

If you read the vast majority of my posts on this site, I rarely allude to my education - however everyone assumes that because I have a name that obviously "boasts" of my education, that I must think everyone else is stupid and inferior to me.  If I do speak of my academic experiences, it's usually to give added insight towards subject matter that some might not be as well versed on, but there are plenty of issues where I usually keep out of, because I recognize that I'm not a "know it all."

Quite the contrary to popular belief here, I think there are plenty of intelligent people on this website - some who've been to college, and some who have not.

This "educated vs. not" deal has got me thinking lately. If it bugs you then it speaks to you not the supposedly educated person.

I did not make it out of high school,knew at the time I was as "smart" as most who did. Went on to get my AA and know I will never stop learning.

I do think we need to watch what we say about education~ it should never be downgraded.Look to our  graduation rates for the reason why.

Kids~ if your reading this: Stay in school! It was a different day when I quit school ,today it would be a disastrous choice to make. Tech school,collage,whatever~ learn to love learning....you will never regret it.

Very good points, Sage.

My in-laws are prime examples of those who are extremely intelligent but do not have college degrees.  My father-in-law literally is a walking encylopedia of knowledge, and while we don't always see eye-to-eye on everything, he always makes well thought arguments that are always a challenge to contend with.  My cousin Tom (currently dying from a gunshot wound to the head) is another prime example - went to trade school for plumbing, but he could have easily been in academia if he had taken an interest.  He always whipped me at chess.. and I'm sad that I'll never get the opportunity to beat him.

Most of the people on this blog site are all intelligent - we just have different points of view on specific issues, and sometimes we might have more or less information than the other person.  I never have belittled anyone for not having an education, and I find it rather insulting that people have the audacity to belittle me for having one.

I also agree with you, Sage, that we should be supporting higher education, instead of belittling it.  So many people have such a skewed mentality of the University system these days.  I was banned from Sam's blog because I called him out when he claimed that the Universities were breeding grounds for liberalism, brought on by the Professors.  It's hysterical that people actually believe such tripe.  I'd love to introduce the naysayers to the many conservative friends I have with Bachelor's, Master's, Juris Doctorates & even Doctorates who would beg to differ.

FGS~ I am so sorry to hear about your cousin.

Education can take many forms and hopefully it is a lifelong process. I try to learn something new everyday and usually do.

Thanks Sage. 

I intend to continue learning myself.  A great example is the current career I'm in, whereas I never was interested in mechanical systems or applications previously, now I sell the many components that are used in the industrial sector.  I'm learning about new products, systems and applications each and every day.  I sell to some people with no formal post-secondary education who could run circles around me as it pertains to mathematical and physical principles, and I always let them know how amazed I am at what they do.  Further proof that I'm not some guy who rubs my degree in everyone's face as if I'm hot cheese or something.

<End of defensive rant>

FSG, wherebouts are you from in FL?

I grew up in Orlando - pretty much split 40/40/20 - UF fans, Nole fans & Miami fans.

May I point out (once again) that Sioux posted and dj didn't. They are never seen in the same place. Two opposite sides of the coin.

The whole education thing is amusing. I have found throughout my professional career that people who say "education is no guarentee of being smart" usually couldn't make it through college, maybe they ran out of money, were too lazy to study or just not smart.

FSG..I deleted it because it was silly and pointless. You have nothing to teach me and that's just the truth. You'll look back on these years when you are my age and realize I was right. Weakness? Yeah, right. Whatever. You want to apologize to Mom, send her a private message or make your own post to do it. Don't blame me for nobody seeing your magnanamous behavior.

Len n Ken..How could I ever forget you? Let's ride sometime!

Gr8scott..I am not butthurt. I'm just burnt out. Maybe I'll get revived..maybe I won't..Right now I really don't care. I AM butthurt about the Raiders again, but then I am used to that!

Audrey..It wasn't about parties or politics..It was getting personal and that is not my style online. It was about me and my family. I chose what I saw as the high road. That's all.

As for the education thing, I stated, clearly, that it doesn't give you common sense. That which is needed to make it in this world and I guarantee you, education or common sense alone will get you nowhere.  It takes a good balance of both to succeed. I said nothing about intelligence. I never went to college. I went to work, but I'll stack my IQ against anyone's.

I'm not leaving. I'm just not gonna argue with people I don't know, at least not here. You want to argue with me, let's have coffee or a beer and do it in person.

One of the most intelligent people I know is self educated, Abraham Lincoln. I hope the Republicans put him forth as the candidate on their ticket sometime, but this go 'round it will be John C. Fremont, the famous explorer late of the elite U.S. Army Topographical Engineers. Huzzah!

You have nothing to teach me and that's just the truth.

Talk about arrogance.  You can learn something from everyone on this earth, no matter how young, old, weak or strong they are.  I'm honestly surprised that at age 50, you haven't figured that out. 

You'll look back on these years when you are my age and realize I was right. Weakness? Yeah, right. Whatever. You want to apologize to Mom, send her a private message or make your own post to do it. Don't blame me for nobody seeing your magnanamous behavior.

It is weakness.  You're so quick to point the finger and call someone out, but you're also so quick to stick your fingers in your ears like a child, "Na na na.. I'm not listening!"

It was about me and my family. I chose what I saw as the high road. That's all.

You could start taking the high road by admitting that you're a hypocrite.  I'll admit it - I'm a hypocrite.  I don't like it when people make things personal, but then again, I've made things personal from time to time.  ADMIT IT - you'll feel much better.

As for the education thing, I stated, clearly, that it doesn't give you common sense. That which is needed to make it in this world and I guarantee you, education or common sense alone will get you nowhere.

I continue to find this argument hilarious. You're not the first one on here to preach from the pulpit of "I'm older and wiser than you."  I'm sure you do have plenty of wisdom on me, but that doesn't mean that I haven't already learned a thing or two, or that I haven't had certain life experiences.  Ask the people on this site who know me in person (especially those who REALLY know me), and you'll find that in the 26 years I have been on this earth, I've been through quite a bit.  That doesn't make me better than you or anyone else; no more than your experiences make you better than me or anyone else. 

You talk about things getting personal, how about that? How about the constant attacks I get from people who tell me that because I'm younger, I must not have as much common sense.  How about those who state that because I decided to honor my Alma mater and a great (well, normally great) football team with my name on this site, that I must be trying to rub my education in their faces?  Show me one post that I ever made where I belittled someone because they didn't have a college degree.  

 It takes a good balance of both to succeed.

That it does.. and I have both, thanks. 

I went to work, but I'll stack my IQ against anyone's.

I'm sure you have a great IQ, and I feel nothing against that.

You want to argue with me, let's have coffee or a beer and do it in person.

I'd honestly love to have coffee or a beer with you.  Name the time and place, if you don't want to come to Drinking Liberally tomorrow night.  Maybe then we can hash out our differences cordially, and maybe then you'll realize that I'm not a yuppy college graduate who thinks he's better than everyone else.  I'd rather something positive come from all of this than for animosity to brew and fester.

Cant tomorrow..Have to take my daughter to the tutor(shes not an FSG). Friday..fun with the G/F and friends. Saturday, Fresno State at San Jose State. Maybe Sunday afternoon..Chuy's on Rosedale..You buy, my experience and desire to create new stories have left me short on cash!  LOL

I never said anything about anyone belittling anyone about education. I meant that people tend to use it to make themselves seem more intelligent, thus my comment about common sense. Who says I was even talking about you? Guilty conscience? Naw..I think not. The arrogance of thinking you are the only one on here who has made a point of their higher education? Probably not. Jumping to conclusions because the shoe just might fit? Maybe..Whatever.. I know you haven't been around long, but there have been a few here who have done it. Relax, I'm not pointing fingers, but rather, making a point.

I have never allowed animosity to fester. I have a knack for just moving on. When something starts getting under my skin, I address it, or leave it behind, depending on it's importance in my life. Arguing about politics until it becomes personal is not on my list. Making new friends IS on that list. Well see how that goes, I guess.

The whole education thing is amusing. I have found throughout my professional career that people who say "education is no guarentee of being smart" usually couldn't make it through college, maybe they ran out of money, were too lazy to study or just not smart.

 Or maybe they had health problems which made it impossible for them to attend college right out of high school. 

Then,  maybe 10 years later when they went back to school,  they already had a family and still managed to get a 2 year college degree (with a near 4 point grade average)  before the car broke down and the utilities got turned off.   Then maybe they went to work at the first job they could find and worked without stopping for the next 30 years. 

Maybe lots of damn things.

I do not think it behooves any of us to cry superior.  Last I checked they ( the experts) had broken intelligence down into 7 categories. I might hold my own in  interpersonal dynamics  but pity me if I have to survive a day in a urban setting...

moto, I know you don't THINK you have anything against educated people, but the phrase "you have nothing to teach me" is either the height of hubris, or a defensive reaction of extreme proportions.

I'm quite certain you are a smart guy. I also think the educated vs common sense dichotomy is absolutely meaningless. I believe in a theory known as "seven intelligences" which posits that people can have high or low IQs in at least seven different areas. It is not an unreasonable foundation for understanding human abilities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

But even for those who believe in multiple intelligences, there is no such thing as "common sense". I think "common sense" is only a mixture of tradition, local habit, and good old-fashioned IQ. 

You might think someone is demonstrating a lack of common sense when they can't find hex nuts in a hardware store, or when they make bad decisions when driving, or when they say something rude without intending to be rude.

None of that needs an special area of the brain or an exotic type of intelligence or awareness or 'sense' of any type to explain it.

The idea of common sense has only one product: assuaging bruised egos for folks who know they could have done better in school than they did. In other communities, (non white ones, especially) the myth is that "I went to the school of the street" and learned a lot more than you did at your four year university. Or the school of hard knocks. Etc. etc.

btw: I think FSG should be damn proud of that accomplishment and needs not explain to anyone why he would introduce himself that way.

In fact, you can call me MSG: Michigan State Grad; unfortunately, that is also a very unpopular food additive. Oh well.

Sunday's not a good day.  I'll tell you what, we can set something up for the near future.. life is kinda hectic for the next few weeks, being I just moved.

You buy, my experience and desire to create new stories have left me short on cash!  LOL

We can go dutch.  I just purchased my first home - I'm just as short on cash as you probably are!

Relax, I'm not pointing fingers, but rather, making a point.

I assumed that you were refering to me, since the past few blog threads have pretty much been the two of us back and forth.  My defensiveness of the issue comes from the experiences I have had in the past with certain bloggers on this site.  It's rather tiresome when people attack one's arguments on the grounds of "he thinks he's hot stuff because he has a college degree." If my assumption was wrong, then I made an ass out of you and me. 

Arguing about politics until it becomes personal is not on my list. Making new friends IS on that list. Well see how that goes, I guess.

Technically, politics is personal.  However, in light of us trying to make amends, I will once and for all apologize for my comments about your mother.  They were brash, insensitive and quite honestly, I did it knowing full and well that it was in an attempt to get a rise out of you.  I was wrong to do such a thing.

It's a real drag to watch Mark and FSG argue because I know them both somewhat.  They are both my friends on Facebook, and they're both really cool.  Really genuine, caring, interesting men. 

Here's something you both have in common:  music.  Sort of.  FSG is really more into the hard core heavy metal and Mark is really more into classic rock, but you both like rock, so that's SOMEthing, at least.  Bang your head.  Both of you.

Here's something else you both have in common:  neither one of you guys hardly ever comment on my Facebook updates.  Why???  I post good stuff!  Occasionally.

And Mark--everyone needs a break from this place sometimes.   I like to think if it as a vacation from blogging.  : )

The only guy on here who is hot stuff is me! According to Jennifer, anyway...

People can say what they like about me. I really don't care, but attacking my Mom(or anyone else in my family) is NOT a good idea for anyone. Anyone who knows me understands that once I have lost my composure, jail, lawsuits, even getting my own ass kicked, are not things with which I will concern myself. I have a short fuse and a hot temper and no matter how irrational that seems to me when I am calm, it doesn't keep me thinking when I am pissed. As a friend once said when we were talking about our shortcomings in this area, "Bud, we're both furniture throwing rage-aholics", and "Violence may not be the answer, but it sure as hell gets people's attention". We can't all be composed all the time I guess.

Politics can be very personal, but debating doesn't have to get that way.

Dirty. I'm not talking about an educated person teaching me something they learned in school. I'm talking about a person half my age teaching me anything about life. I totally disagree that EVERYONE has something to teach someone else. I've just seen too many people who had nothing to show me about anything, and you can ask those who know me. I am a VERY teachable person. I love to learn and discover new things about me and the world around me, but where life is concerned..I am very much a "been there, done that" guy, because I have. Again, you'd have to know me understand I am not being arrogant or hardheaded when I say that. I'm not saying that I have nothing to learn, I'm just saying that at this point in my life, I have a vast hard drive of information and experience, and if someone wants to teach me something, they will need to have a pretty vast disc themselves. I know what I knew in my 20's, and it wasn't jack, even though at the time, I thought it was.

One of the things that sets bloggers at each others throats is that most do not know each other and will,likely, never meet. That makes it easy to become a smart ass to one another, where people who DO know each other have a much better understanding of the person with whom they are dealing. I have read things about me and my Mom on here that, had the authors of those statements known our family, would never have been even hinted at. I have had people say things to me that, if they knew me, they would know better than to say unless they enjoy a good fight!

It's so easy, in this medium, to create a false sense of familiarity based on people's views. It is also very easy to misinterpret the feel of what someone is trying to say. There is no vocal inflection, no visual or audio cues to create a true sense of what someone is saying. Someone trying to help can easily be seen as being smug, witty sarcasm mistaken for hatefulness. That is why I prefer debating face to face. It's not so I can punch someone if they disagree with me, but rather to better understand how and why someone feels a certain way, and you can ask questions immediately to quell any misunderstandings.

That is not to say people may still not get along. They may even go to blows, but if that happens, at least it will over actual issues between people and not ones perceived. I have met people from this very site who I didn't like any more in person than I did on here. There were no blows thrown, but I(and ,I am sure, they)didn't care if we ever spoke again.

WOW Moto - you just described moi' !!!!! I guess I am the female version of you !!!  I'm a door slammin', dish throwin', female. Don't EVEN mess with me and mine unless you want the (verbal) fight of your life! Most have found that if I'm yellin' people are fairly safe - however when I get really quiet and and my words are very deliberate - get the hell out of the way!!

I have met some from this blog and have liked those who I have met.  Don't ever change! Your mom and I are the same age soooooooooo  does that mean WE could possibly teach you something??!!! HA! probably not :-) Your Jennifer is one of the sweetest people I have met - you got lucky!!

Mark - I appreciate that people older than myself on average will have more life experiences and perspectives.  However, I still think it is a bit stubborn of you to claim that because you feel that you've had such experiences in life, that you must know about as much as you can, unless you  meet someone with even more experiences.  In essence, you're arguing quantity - I'm arguing quality.  What I mean by this is that we each have unique experiences in life.

Without delving too personal, I'll just say that there are specific events that have happened in my life in the past 3 years that have given me a different perspective from most of my peers, and in reailty, many of my elders as well. These were not events that I chose to partake in - they were life changing events for me.  I'm not trying to suggest that I'm better than anyone, or that I'm more experienced - however we each experience our lives differently.  It is in sharing each other's specific lives that we can learn.  I'll agree with you that there are the occasional people who really do have nothing to offer, but to assume that anyone on this website is one of them is quite a disservice to yourself. 

This is not criticism, merely my observation, but I think you have a fear of being open to the possibility that someone much younger than you could actually have encountered certain experiences wherin they can in fact teach you something - even if it's a very small lesson learned.  A great example would be some of my peers who've been involved in Iraq or Afghanistan.  I cannot remember if you were ever involved in the military, but chances are even if you were, you probably didn't see combat - considering you would have been too young for Vietnam, and probably too old for Gulf War I.  If that is the case, then wouldn't you agree that you just might be able to garner new insight from someone who's actually been in combat?  Once again, this is only an example, even if it doesn't apply specifically to you.

Fsg, you haven't met Jennifer have you?

For once I am in agreement with you.  Perspective.  We all come to this point in our lives through education.  Whether that education is school, university, school of hard knocks, OJT or just plain living, we are who we are because of it.  No one can ever know anothers life or experience no matter what you may have in common.

Someone like Mark has been through marriages, children and now grandchildren.  He has taken on other peoples children and their families.  He's been through broken bones and illnesses of his own and lost many very close friends.  He has 30 years of experience in little electronic gadgets that have evolved over those 30 years to the railway signal system you see today.  Every time you cross a UP track here in town or from Tehachapi to Fresno (maybe beyond) you see his work and you benefit from it.

He is one of the most inquisitive people I know, constantly reading up on astronomy and science.  He has a phenomenal memory and has rarely met a stranger.  (gets it from his dad.)  His FORMAL education is as a high school graduate.  His WORK education is from Southern Pacific training schools and thousands of hours on the job.

I don't say all this to toot his horn as a mother, but rather to let you know why people who are so bent on  university degree being the answer to everything isn't always true.  He's worked hard to be the educated informed person he is today.

Now call me biased if you will but yes, I'm proud of what he has made of himself and I'm not ashamed to say it.

Mostly I have great respect for him and the man he became.  If you think he comes off harsh here you should hear him answer the phone.  And yet a better hearted person you'd be hard put to find.

I don't know if he got this part from me or not but one of the things that defines Mark is he "doesn't suffer fools gladly"

I understand you have experienced some things none of us have...but you have a long way to go and someday, when you're 50, or 67 you'll be talking to your kids when they're your current age, and nod.  When they ask you why you're nodding just tell them, you'll understand some day.

Moto: I feel you on the Raiders thing. I was a fanatical fan for years, but finally had to leave 'em years ago...couldn't understand why with all the talent they put on the field that they couldn't win :(

Nancy: I know the difference. Ease up, Baby (term of endearment, nothing to do with maturation), it's only a local newspaper blog :)

Right on, Nancy.  I can see how proud you are of Mark, and I can also understand why.  It is absolutely wonderful when there is that closeness and respect between a mother and her offspring.  It's borne of mutual love and respect, and it must be admired by all.  You know I have a daughter, and I'm so proud that she's the woman she has become.  And such a much better mother than me!  For that I'm really proud! 

gr8, that wasn't directed at you.

Alicen, it's great to see our kids advance beyond us.  Deb is a computer whiz, smart and funny, has a great eye for saleable vintage and quirky items for ebay, is probably the best friend anyone could want, loyal and always there to help them.  (see the gentleman who died in the fire.)  And the worst/best part is that I NEVER looked as good in clothes as she does...LOL.  Not that I'm jealous or anything.

Fsg, you haven't met Jennifer have you?

I have not.

For once I am in agreement with you.  Perspective.  We all come to this point in our lives through education.  Whether that education is school, university, school of hard knocks, OJT or just plain living, we are who we are because of it.  No one can ever know anothers life or experience no matter what you may have in common.

Exactly.  I think one of the mistakes people make is assuming that because someone went to college directly from high school, they must not have had much life experience.  That can be true for many, especially those who choose to live at home in the shell of their parent's cocoon, but it is not true for all.  Either way, each decision we make in life, no matter how great or small, can have a much larger impact on our entire life.  We are all puzzles, and each of us is unique.

Someone like Mark has been through marriages, children and now grandchildren.  He has taken on other peoples children and their families.  He's been through broken bones and illnesses of his own and lost many very close friends.  He has 30 years of experience in little electronic gadgets that have evolved over those 30 years to the railway signal system you see today.  Every time you cross a UP track here in town or from Tehachapi to Fresno (maybe beyond) you see his work and you benefit from it.

Obviously Mark's perspective is different from mine. I'll be celebrating my 3rd year of marriage in March.  I have no offspring yet.  I have about 5 years of professional experience.  All things which are dwarfed by your son's experiences.

However, I've also seen death first hand.  I've gone through college away from home - dealing with the many struggles one can face from so much responsibility yet so much freedom at the same time.  I've traveled to foreign countries.  I've dealt with a spouse who suffers from a life-long illness (and will continue to deal with it for the rest of my life, God willing).  I moved completely across the country with no real clue of what to do with myself, and rallied to secure a job with a great company and a great future.  I literally walked into the place, without knowledge of whether they were hiring or not, and even though they didn't have an opening, even though I didn't have any real experience in the field, I sold myself.  Not even a year later, I would have to do the same thing after dealing with a major family trauma that not only tested the limits of my young marriage, but also tested the limits of my mental and emotional psyche.

These are but a few little snippets of my experiences.  I don't have 50 years worth - I have 26 years worth, but each and every one of them are unique, and should Mark decide to let down his guard and accept the possibility, he might just wind up learning a few things from me.  I know I can probably learn plenty from him.

I don't say all this to toot his horn as a mother, but rather to let you know why people who are so bent on  university degree being the answer to everything isn't always true.  He's worked hard to be the educated informed person he is today.

Most of the people I know personally with a formal college education (myself included) normally do not belittle someone who does not have a degree.  Being college educated never guarantees that one is better than another.  I've never said that my degree is better than anyone.  The problem is this - too many people have an automatic aversion to those of us with a better formal education.  I'm sure that there are and have been some highly educated people who have snubbed their noses at others, however it is completely unfair for one to make the assumption that we're all that way.  When I ever mention my studies, it's normally when I'm making a point regarding historical context.  While many assume that the University system is liberal and corrupts our young minds into something political, the reality is that most Professors couldn't give a damn what their student's politics are - they care about molding their minds towards and academic point of view.  Case in point, as it relates to my academic experiences, I learned specific concepts and methods for research which most will not see need or use for.  This has led me to always question the source of the information, before I automatically believe it.  Universities also have a much greater access to information than even the internet.  For example, I wrote my senior thesis on U.S. involvement in Iraq during the 1980's, and I utilized the Digital National Security Archives, whereas I sifted through hundreds of declassified documents online.  However, unless you actually go to the Archives in person, the only way you can access the site is via an Academic portal.  I could go on, but I think I've made enough examples, therefore, when taken in context, there will be certain things I've learned in a University setting that the average person probably will not know, and might not even have ready access to.

Now call me biased if you will but yes, I'm proud of what he has made of himself and I'm not ashamed to say it.

There's nothing wrong with being proud of your son.  You created him. He is your flesh.  If you weren't proud of him, I'd say you have a few screws loose!

Mostly I have great respect for him and the man he became.  If you think he comes off harsh here you should hear him answer the phone.  And yet a better hearted person you'd be hard put to find.

I'm sure he has many respectable qualities, but that doesn't mean I won't call someone out when I disagree with them, or when I think they're being hypocritical or just plain incorrect.

I understand you have experienced some things none of us have...but you have a long way to go and someday, when you're 50, or 67 you'll be talking to your kids when they're your current age, and nod.  When they ask you why you're nodding just tell them, you'll understand some day.

I do have a long way to go.  However, some of the things I've experienced I would wish upon no one.  Others, I hope to one day share.