I agree, but our liberal friends do not. They continue to beat the drumhead that makes victims of the victimizers. They continue to elect legislators with no moral base and no sense of right and wrong. They elect and appoint judges who have made it policy to interpret the law rather than apply it. They continue to make excuses for the depraved and debased, and as long as San Francisco, San Diego and Los Angeles have more voters than the central valley, nothing is going to change. Not in California, anyway.

On top of all that, when they are preparing to release thousands of criminals for no other reason than they can't afford to keep them locked up, they aren't going to imprison anyone they aren't forced to, especially those they see as victims. The problem is that many of those so called victims, are products of the very society the liberals helped create and force upon the rest of us.

One of the things that stinks about California is that there simply arent enough of we who DO have a moral base to make a stand. We are told we are trying to force our morality on others, while at the same time, those others ARE forcing their immorality on us. Funny how they never see the hypocrasy. I wonder if, when one of their loved ones becomes a TRUE victim of one of these predators, if they will fail to see the irony?

Interesting tidbit of news slightly off topic- The CA SUpreme court has lowered the bar for granting parole.  Parole boards must now consider the "current danger" of felons not just the heinousness of the crime.

http://www.fresnobee.com/83...

It would be best to educate oneself on the topic rather than simply regurgitate the conventional wisdom, which is neither.  An approach that utilizes scholarly wisdom to deal with this issue as well as the many other issues regarding criminal behavior will create a much better society.

I'd like to see government protect the rights of all citizens, period.  Children are no more special than adults in that regard, and vice versa.  Sex offenders are entitled to the protections of the constitution.  So are children.  So are you and I.  Axe murderers, drug dealers, pimps, and every other type of creepy or violent citizen is entitled to those protections as well.  When we stop providing equal protection under the law, we have the beginnings of a police state where even you, the most innocent and just, will know the fear of a knock on the door in the early morning hours...

A link for more information regarding your specific topic. 

http://ml.waspc.org/Downloa...

I was terribly surprised when I researched this topic several weeks ago!

Guess who'll be running the asylum.

Jfrancias, I like the new standard, as it is something I personally advocate.  I think it raises the bar, not lowers it.  We should not under any circumstances release people who are likely to commit another crime.  That said, we have to better deal with the ones we do release.

Middle, I'm surprised you're surprised.   Your article is old news in two ways.   One it's 9 years old and two, that's not new information. 

I don't say that to be mean and sorry if it comes off harsh but experts have been saying that for years.  It's also true for kidnapped children.

The real queston is, do you want a child sexual predator living next door to your children and grandchildren?  While I agree maybe they should have the same rights as anyone else, I believe they gave up a lot of their rights when they allowed their urges to take over and committed heinious crimes.  Someone robbing a 7-11 isn't quite the same thing as someone raping your granddaughter.

edited for clarity

By the way folks, not all sexual predators are arrested for offenses against children.

 It is sad to think that that parents, teachers, and educators warn children to be cautious at all times around strangers.

It's sad to think we have a body of largely ineffective and counterproductive legislation to "protect" children from strangers when 90%+ of all sexual offenses are committed within the household or by people well known to the victim. 

How about some legislation to protect that 90%?  Maybe because it's not based on popular mythology, so it won't help some pea-brained politician get reelected.

mysti77:  Why not use some of that stimulus cash to build more prisons and hire more personnel to imprison those who have been sentenced?  Why let felons run loose when they haven't even finished out a sentence? 

Also, the recidivism rate among child molesters has to be way, way up there.  I don't have any statistics, and I'm not going to look up any statistics.  Right now I'm thinking about the 7-year-old girl recently murdered in Oklahoma who had as neighbors over 150 sex offenders living within a five-mile radius.  That's not to say that one of them is guilty of her murder.  However, I do know this:  if there were a one-strike-and-you're-out law for child predator/perverts, there would be fewer crimes of that nature.  Imprisonment guarantees fewer crimes. 

I think it's a heck of a note that this nation spends (borrows) more money that I'm even capable of imagining for countries all over the world in humanitarian pursuits.  As it does this, it cannot seem to be able to enforce its own laws and force compliance with prison terms.  A heck of a note.  I think it's grand that we're able to make humanitarian efforts all over the globe, but I also think it would be grander if some of those humanitarian efforts were made right here in our own country. 

  "Also, the recidivism rate among child molesters has to be way, way up there.  I don't have any statistics, and I'm not going to look up any statistics.  Right now I'm thinking ... "

Well, it's gotta be true !

Why build more prisons in California when you're not sure of what you're talking about, Alicen ?

Always ready to spend somebody else's money, aren't you ?

--virgil

I say,  don't always believe what you think !

--virgil

What about the ones that hasn't been caught yet....This will be their Christmas...and the sick part of it is it will happen--it does EVERY year...

Nancy, the information was new to me.  :-)  I had no idea regarding some of the statistics, and myself subscribed to some of the conventional wisdom before learning. 

I think it would be nice to know if my neighbor were a sex offender.  It would be nice to know if my neighbor were a gangster, drug dealer, arsonist, or thief as well. 

Since there are holes, even in the sex offender registry, and since people are not required to register for any other kinds of crime against children (or people in general) I must assume for the sake of safety that every person out there poses a potential threat to my family.  Therefore, I do not rely on draconian yet often ineffectual laws to protect me, but rather take every reasonable precaution to prevent myself and my family from being victimized.  Children remain supervised, preferably by myself, doors are locked, and property is kept safely hidden away when unused.  I have a fire extinguisher close at hand and I've installed a security system on my home.  That said, safety can never be guaranteed, only reasonably maximized.  And my right to safety does not trump your rights to act and go as a law-abiding citizen, even if you have previously committed a crime (as long as you have paid your debt to society). 

For all I know my neighbor could be a sex offender.  I've had a few I surely wondered about, but in all it would not trouble me.  In fact, knowing for sure would make me feel even more safe.  I'd rather the guy stay put where the neighborhood and law enforcement could keep an eye on him than shuffle him off to someplace far away (because as you send your problems to the next neighborhood, they're doing the same to you...).

And that goes for all criminals, not just sex offenders, who I do not feel are really any more special than any other kind of felon.

The "conservative" part of me says we ought to protect freedom more then restrict it and if we allow enough freedom to people, they can often (although not always) protect their own rights better than a policeman or a lawyer.    :-)

" They continue to elect legislators with no moral base and no sense of right and wrong"

That explains why the CDC is so  recalcitrant to reform .

--virgil

Middle, I guess there's something to be said for "keep your friends close  and your enemies closer."

Alicen, I love ya but quotes like these chill me to the bones, Imprisonment guarantees fewer crimes. 

Of course it's true, but it's also how we justify the police state.  In such a situation, you are at more risk from the state than you are from a criminal.  I think "strike laws" are quite absurd in application.  In fact, our justice system by and large qualifies as absurd.  We outspend, yet have astronomical recidivism rates because we do not rehabilitate or reintegrate the felon.  We like to think everyone different from us is less important and ultimately disposable.  Awesome worldview!

More freedom, not less, is the way.  That's more freedom for all, both the guilty who've paid and the innocent who are most deserving.

Quite right, Nancy!

Amen MOTO,

One thing i found that struck a nerve is: "Children are no more special than adults in that regard..."

i beg to differ

it is OUR job to protect the innocents, the children, meek and weak, I ~ as a mother, will take ANY rape of any type to protect a innocent child.....

BUT, when freaky-ass child molesters want to harm a child, most of them are married, 'normal' seeming freaks, therefore raping an innocent child is their desire, so they wouldnt want my old ass anyways!

Goldi, to clarify, both children and adults are entitled to the same level or protection, but not one at the expense of the other.  When government starts saying that all adults must sacrifice this or that for "the children" we can get some very bad things indeed.

As a parent, you ought to decide when, what and how much to sacrifice for your children.  The government ought not intervene beyond guaranteeing the basic human rights of your child. 

I don't like spanking, and I despise yelling, but I love how yelling at your children is the new spanking.  Pretty soon, Big Brother will just take your children and raise them for you.

No, hold the line against the government.  As a parent you can decide how much you want to dote and how best to protect.  Let's not put "child safety" on a pedestal above adult safety.  Putting children on a pedestal has done wonders for our society...ask any cynic.

 "Putting children on a pedestal has done wonders for our society...ask any cynic."

Made a perverted  career out of KernTown's current DA.

Yes sir ...   it, sure did .

--virgil

Middlepath, sorry but you are dead wrong.  Children are different and deserve special protection.  I don't know if you have kids or not but they are the most vulnerable in our society and anybody that threatens those that are most vulnerable should be dealt  with the same compassion they gave their victim.  I find it odd that a certain part of our society is all to eager to give special preference to crimes committed because of sexual orientation or religious leanings or race but it seems you have a problem with treating this proved segment of society which is without redemption and usually can not be rehabilitated harshly.  I may be taking you wrong.  I have very little sympathy for those mysti77 is referring to.

 "Children are different and deserve special protection"

I protect my own children, thank you very much, while I teach them to protect themselves.

--virgil

MEN !

How do we (as parents) teach our CHILDREN to protect themselves?  The obvious is OBVIOUS

"dont talk to strangers... BUT sit on that FREAKY santas LAP   dammit   Jr  "

"dont get in a strangers car...blah blah"

BUT

what IF the babe is walking 1/2 block ~ and some FREAK   G R A B S   that child   POW, how in the hell can a 7 y/o DEFEND themselves physically from a 215 pound MAN-freak????????  tell me THAT and i will SHUT - UP !  (maybe not for long, but you can TRY !)

Virgil you are a piece of work.

goldilox, I'm on your side.  Please don't include me with others unless deserved.

thx anglo .... just pisses me off when some of the "gentle"men on here act like IF we tell our kids the 'safe' rules ~ terrible things wont happen to 'their' kids, give me a break !!!!  i PRAY (to whatever gawd will listen) that NO child is victim to a sexual FREAK ass molester, gets me riled up.... BUT you never know!  look at the poor beautiful little girl next to some freaky-ville florida town (somer) that walked home w/ ALL her friends & family and was abducted RAPED and KILLED, and tossed away like trash. does anyone challenge that HER loving parents didnt warn her about strangers?  she was TEENIE,  TAKE and GRAB affect in place.

and to make it worse, FAMILY freak members are the ones that usually GET to the kids first, sweet old uncle jack.... NOT !

Off topic a bit but,  the murder you referred to in Florida was one of many but for some reason that one really hit me hard.  Don't know what was different other than in the same broadcast  some kid was set on fire by his classmates. Sometimes regardless of what some think I don't have a problem with parents taking matters in their own hands and dispensing justice.

warning , DEFF dont go to florida !!

there are 1,0000 more freaky arse crimes in dade county and in florida than anywhere else, very odd..... everytime we read the news, the weird crap is happening in florida.  i will stick to Disney LAND in  so-cal personally

I guess what I am trying to say, is I do not expect my safety to be guaranteed by curtailing your law-abiding freedoms.  I know there are those who think sacrificing freedom and rights will create safety, but they're the ones who end up dead wrong, or just dead.

I'm being philosophical and esoteric, but these issues are very complex and don't lend themselves to the simple us vs. them rhetoric that is endemic on these forums.  This has been a struggle for me for the ages--my burden I suppose. 

Take up the b.com's burden and send forth the best arguments ye breed...  

:-)

SPAM CODE: HELLP

"Children are different and deserve special protection"

I protect my own children, thank you very much, while I teach them to protect themselves.

--virgil

I'm pretty sure virgil is teaching his daughters how law enforcement is wasting resources eradicating large, illegal, marijuana grows in our forests, how D.A. Jagels is a criminal, and how everyone should be able to smoke the "harmless" drug marijuana.

His poor daughters... can you say rehab?

Yeah like if marijuana really makes you grow hair on your chest or makes you smarter. Yeah Right!

By the very act, haven't the cirminals given up on their rights?  Most civilized people tend to live by the very rights they EARN.  

My proposal would be to let all the pot heads out of prison (legalization of marijuana as I see this being no more harmful than the alcohol that kills thousands every year), send all the illegal felons back to their home country.  Can you imagine the lessening tax burdent and more room to keep these sickos in longer?  Nah, that would be too easy.   

Finally, "Children are no more special than adults in that regard, and vice versa. " Are you serious? 

  Most civilized people tend to live by the very rights they EARN.  

Silly me, I thought rights were God given.  How do you earn the right of freedom of speech or not be discriminated against based on color or gender?- by being born in the right place.

sex offenders were given rights by the same people that oppose the death penaltiy( but are ok with abortion??)

i think prisioners don't deserve rights

Jfrancias, I agree.

There's a lot of folks on here that need a civics lesson. 

We give rights to everybody (even the bad guys) because it's in our own self interest to do so. 

God forbid one of you is ever wrongly accused of a horrid crime and you get the same treatment you advocate here...

As long as it's not me, I don't care...lalalala!  Pitchforks and bonfires!  See no evil...lalala!

 sex offenders were given rights by the same people that oppose the death penaltiy( but are ok with abortion??)

Valid argument, however, I oppose both.  I don't play the semantics (human being v. embryo) game

" I'm pretty sure virgil is teaching his daughters how law enforcement is wasting resources eradicating large, illegal, marijuana grows in our forests, how D.A. Jagels is a criminal,"

Yes, I do.

I also teach them to detect Jagel Monkeys like you.

Mate, how often do you swallow during the course of a normal day's work ?

--virgil

here's a lot of folks on here that need a civics lesson. 

We give rights to everybody (even the bad guys) because it's in our own self interest to do so. 

God forbid one of you is ever wrongly accused of a horrid crime and you get the same treatment you advocate

sorry.  i dont agree with you.  a person that commits a crime so heinus as child molestation, and a few others in my book....doesnt deserve to live off the taxpayers for free, with a better medical program than some citizens that work their rear ends off and pay taxes

prisioners and prisions should be self-sufficient.  they have all that manual labor, and can do nothing with it

For me I'd rather have my enemies close, I always told my daughter I don't care if they are family. friend or whatever you do not get in a car with them unless I say so. My son had only one sitter and it was my niece, i took my son everywhere i could.

And Check: I too believe like Virgil that jagels is funny not a comedian way.

prisioners and prisions [sic] should be self-sufficient.  Learnem, for once we agree on a point.  

Note that prisoners don't have better medical plans or a better quality of life--hence the court order to release many of them. 

The best way to protect children and adults alike is to guarantee and protect some very basic human rights.  Some folks may by deed be a little less deserving in the opinion of some, but once we start to erode the universal standard of human rights, making those rights less for some or more for others, we begin a journey down a darkened lane where far worse than sex offenders reside.

I' prefer the worst child molester next door than the best stasi/gestapo/KGB agent...Perhaps some of you BEG to differ?

middle: Your statistics are from 2000. we are going into 2010. Children are our Future; so if we as a community cannot protect them who will.... They do not deserve to be frightened every time a Van drives by slow asking them to look for a puppy. They do not deserve to hush when a relative scares the daylights out of them. This is absurd to think our children do not have a chance with Offenders getting a slap on the wrist...

 "middle: Your statistics are from 2000. we are going into 2010."

It's gotta be worse now. I know it is, because other people's children are our future - for sure !

--virgil

As far as children deserving the special protection : as a mother of a special needs child I offer him as a case in point. He could neither speak nor move~ a pedophiles dream and that was my nightmare. Why I prayed to all the gods and chaos to let him die before I did. That being the case other peoples children are "my only future".

There have been heinous cases with "caregivers" committing these crimes with the most vulnerable institutionalized children. The case in New York comes to mind~ I wrote about this animal  and others on the blogs here.

That being said not every individual required to register as a sex offender preys on children.

After their (pedophiles) day in court,being found guilty, they should face much stricter sentencing than are currently enforceable.

I completely resent the assertion that liberals somehow foster pedophilia. As a victim and as a mother this is one liberal who works for tougher laws. I am not alone. To use this crime as a political tool to further divide us is..well icky.

Mysti, I invite you to offer more recent statistics taken from a scholarly source that refute mine.  

You will not find them.

The basic findings of the research are still true today.  In fact, with inevitable advances in treatment and management, I would lay wager the stats have improved since 2010...

Children have no business around strangers and vice versa, lost puppies or no.  Teach your children that and do not allow them to run the streets.  When parents, not the state looks after the safety and responsibility of raising their children, we will be in a better place.  Sadly, the trend appears opposite.

I say why even bother.  Why not just kill anyone who breaks the law.  Then we get rid of the scum and don't have to worry about financing prisons! WHO'S WITH ME!?

We could even take those now unused tax dollars and put religious posters in each and every classroom.

 WHO'S WITH ME!?

I hear they're hiring for Gulags in China and North Korea.  You might find some followers there.

Seriously though, I think everyone is deserving of forgiveness and a second chance. 

Does anybody remember the name of the last person to die by firing squad?  Was his name Gary something?  If memory serves me correctly, he chose that method over any other available at that time -- it was probably a choice among hanging, firing squad or electric chair.  I think I'd choose firing squad, too, if faced with that choice.  There was no lethal injection at that time.

I was in error when I mentioned a 7-year-old Oklahoma girl who was recently murdered; it was, instead, Florida. 

There are statistics "grandmaw" about who commits this type of crime -- whether they're family members, friends of the family, neighbors, or complete strangers.  My refusal to look at what the statistics are doesn't mean that I never looked at them. 

Someone mentioned that many of these crimes are committed by people known to the victim; that's true, I believe, because of the convenience factor.  It's easier for a criminal to find a victim right in the family, right at the "perfect" time when there's close proximity.  That said, however, there are still those predators who look for a happenstance victim -- probably much like what happened to the Florida girl recently. 

What has amazed me -- and I believe has amazed mysti77, is how many times these felons are convicted.  Rhetorically, how many convictions does it take before a felon is put in the clink forever?  Where he should have been the first time?  It just stands to reason that someone in prison is not going to be out murdering 7-year-olds.  Or 70-year-olds, for that matter.  How many times had Couhy been in prison for attacks on children before he finallly found the one victim he buried alive?  Would he have murdered that child -- Jessica Lunsford -- if he had been in prison where he belonged?

And Virgil, no matter how funny you believe this to be, or how you may disagree with me about the treatment of these cretins, I do not deserve the kind of remarks you have aimed at me. 

Gary Gilmore, Norman Mailer wrote a book about it The Executioner's Song. 

Killing people in the name of the State makes us all murderers in the eyes of God.

Oh man, where do I start...

My refusal to look at what the statistics are doesn't mean that I never looked at them.  The information is out there, so there is little excuse for us to perpetuate myths. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge the scientifically established facts is guilty of willful ignorance.  People who express strong opinions that are contrary to fact ought not be, and generally are not, taken seriously.

Ever wonder why these shocking crimes against children are reported nationally?  It because they're news.  These crimes are  sufficiently rare.  Registered sex offenders simply don't lie in wait at parks and schools looking to ambush small children or waiting for 10/31 to abuse trick-or-treaters.  If that sort of crime happened all the time, it would not be as sensational as it is.  It's like the Swine Flu.  One person dies and we're closing schools and all a-panic rushing the emergency rooms at first sneeze.  All the while, good old classic flu kills by the thousands. Awesome.  I love the uneducated mob mentality.

The same applies to these criminals.  We're so busy worrying about the registered sex offenders (who by definition are abiding by the law) that we often ignore the abuse happening in our own families and sometimes within our very homes.  Kids are at astronomically greater odds of being victimized by their own family members or close acquaintances.  So we need to quit endorsing novel new laws that brand people and ostracize them to the point of recidivism (true for all crimes) and focus our energy on protecting our kids from genuine danger which does not come from strangers after all.

And while it may be true that a convicted sex offender locked in jail isn't committing more sex offenses, it's also true for every other crime.  Murders aren't even put away for life in many cases, yet we advocate it for child molesters?  Well, I'd rather be killed than raped too, I guess...

ALL CRIME IS HEINOUS.  All crime deserves to be punished.  But if we don't recognize that sex offenders aren't the creepy guys in the bushes (although I do wonder what they're doing in there...)  and put some real light on this crime and the people who commit these offenses and abandon the myths, we'll never put a dent in the problem.  How do you like that?  Don't you want to see these crimes brought to an end?  That can only be accomplished if we examine the statistics, study the problem and apply proven remedies.

Locking everyone up works, but we may find we like doing that too much.  Pretty soon, all child abusers will go away for life.  And soon child abuse will be every spanking, every holler and yell, every lecture.  Those delicate flowers!  Children are our future!  (put your hands together for Sexual Chocolate) Pretty soon, we'll find everyman is a criminal with no hope for redemption.  Personally, that's the guy you ought to be afraid of.  The guy with nothing to lose because we find it easier to hate than to deal with reality.

Pogo, that crossed my mind this morning.  As I was getting out bed and going to work, I thought to myself, "I violate the ten commandments for a living".