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noholdsbarred - > No holds barred -> What comes from Vegas should stay in Vegas
What comes from Vegas should stay in Vegas
Has Chad Vegas lost his mind?

How else do you explain the vituperative radio tantrums he’s thrown since his “In God We Trust” proposal surfaced at the Kern High School District trustees meeting on Monday.

I mean, OK, so he wants to ram religion down the throats of high school kids. I get that. I disagree with him, but I get it. 

And, no, I do not for one minute buy his or Bakersfield City Councilwoman Jacquie Sullivan’s argument that this is about patriotism. There are many other things they could do that wouldn’t be nearly as divisive if they truly wanted to promote patriotism or civic learning.

Besides, this is all part of a  national campaign by the American Family Association (http://www.afa.net/), which makes no bones about its belief that God needs a greater presence in the classroom. The group provides the posters — and even the talking points.

Among other things, their website advises: “A word of wisdom to the wise: The posting of the national motto should always reflect a patriotic viewpoint, rather than a religious one. This approach will greatly increase your ability to be successful.”

Let’s call a spade a spade, this is about religion.

Anyway, I’m more interested in the afterglow of that meeting and Vegas’ erratic comments.

Vegas went on the Inga Barks show (KERN Newstalk 1410) on Wednesday and slammed his fellow trustees and this newspaper (go to bakersfield.com to hear it) as God-hating liberals whose agenda includes turning Kern County into a mini-Communist China or Russia. Wow! I guess we should be glad he didn’t call us something really bad — like “French”!

When I talked to Vegas he qualified his statements, saying he had not intended to include fellow trustees, nor, in general, people opposed to his proposal.  “Many of them absolutely believe in God, they said so in their statements.” (Apparently, for Vegas, that’s a prerequisite to having a valid opinion on this issue.)

So, aside from the editorial board, who exactly are these God-hating pinkos?
“The fringe left,” Vegas said.

Who is that?

“The lunatic left.”

Got names?

“I don’t want to name them all,” he said. But he noted one group, The World Can’t Wait, and said they “yell and are hostile.” Actually, because of a mix-up in the speaker cards, they didn’t even get up to speak at Monday’s meeting, according to Jared Thomas, organizer for the local chapter.

I asked Vegas if he felt his comments on the Barks show were unfair, if they further polarized an already incendiary issue.

Nope.

Ok then, back to the original question: Is Vegas off his rocker? 

Heck no.

This is a textbook example of demagoguery, using buzzwords (“atheists,” “communist” and the dreaded “liberal”) to stir up fear and create a bogeyman so people will rally to his cause.

At the same time, his name-calling automatically puts anyone opposed to his proposal on the defensive. To engage in the debate, they must first establish their credentials per his standards.

State for the record that you a) believe in God, b) love this country, and c) are not now, nor have ever been, a member of the Communist party.

The country’s been down this road before and it wasn’t a bright moment in our history.

It’s important to remember that Vegas is a pastor and, as such, a practiced orator. Oral persuasion is a key part of his vocation.

His outburst on Barks’ show was no slip of the tongue. Indeed, when I spoke with him, he revved up again, saying this far-left faction wants a “communistic America.” They are the extremists, he said, “acting as if they are pro-America, and they aren’t.”

Meanwhile, his position is not extreme, he said, only an attempt to uphold the law of the land: “That’s not extreme, that’s normal.”

Maybe to him. But there is no California law — yet — mandating the nation’s motto be put on public facilities.

Vegas likes to “bottom line” things, so here’s mine:

His proposal should be kicked to the curb as pointless and divisive, and so should he.

When his seat is up in 2008, let’s find someone who can help lead a diverse and growing high school district that deserves the brightest minds focused on education, not social engineering.


THE QUOTE:
“If these trustees, and the newspaper is gonna reveal their real agenda, their bottom line agenda is they’re a group of liberal secular atheists who hate God, who are not patriotic. They do not love this country. They would prefer that we become much more like a communist China or Russia, bottom line.”
— Chad Vegas on the Inga Barks show, KERN Newstalk 1410 on Wednesday.

Lois Henry’s column appears Wednesdays and Sundays. Comment at people.bakersfield.com
/home/Blog/noholdsbarred, e-mail her at lhenry@bakersfield.com or call her at 395-7373.
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posted by noholdsbarred on Friday, October 5, 2007 at 05:12 PM
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posted by NancyII on Oct 7, 2007 at 09:53 PM

When someone drags out the dictionary for the technical meaning of a word like "idiot" when their original intent was to insult, it tells ME that they are looking for a way to make it seem they meant no insult.  And I think YOU know what I mean.

If you, or anyone else, is going to insult someone at least be honest about it and don't try to later hide behind a dictionary and make up some phony "intent."   I have no clue what the reference to the Bible has to do with this but if it works in your mind..so be it.

The insults are bad enough on here but the smarmy attempt to twist the meaning to explain it away is ...well....smarmy.

After all..."I did not have sex with that woman" didn't work well for him either.

posted by sagefever on Oct 7, 2007 at 10:20 PM
All of the insults,from all sides..notice how fewer and fewer folks are voicing their opinion? That is a shame IMHO.
posted by nodeceit on Oct 7, 2007 at 11:49 PM
Well, I guess a conservative will have to rain on the liberal parade and cause some "divisiveness".  Although the one to blame for the division is the liberals who are on the wrong side of history, law and what the majority wishes.

The Majority is Christian-

We are a religious nation and we are a overwhelming "Christian" nation.  "Most Americans adhere to Christianity. According to the 2001 American Religious Identification Survey 80% of the U.S. is Christian" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... and some have polls have it high as 95%. 

The majority in this country have no problems with our national motto and would have no problem with them being posted on publics buildings.      As long as the rights of the minority are not infringed upon then the majority can have their way.  It is not against the law for local government or states to mandate the posting of our national motto on public buildings or promote it in schools.

Our History supports this position-

Our founders never intended for this country to be secular.  We have a secular government, but a religious nation. 

James Madison ("The Father of the Constitution") stated that "religion is the basis and Foundation of Government," and later (1825, after retiring from the Presidency) wrote that "the belief in a God All Powerful, wise and good.... is essential to the moral order of the World and the happiness of men."

Chief Justice John Marshall stated,"The American population is entirely Christian, and with us Christianity and Religion are identified. It would be strange indeed, if with such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it, and exhibit relations with it."

Liberals should expect a push back when the loud minority is attempting to rewrite hundreds of years of history, rewrite law and attempt to take apart our heritage, which is largely "Christian".  Conservatives want to preserve this heritage and preserve the freedom to express this heritage and to do so publicly.   It is the liberal minority that wishes to suppress these rights and silence the majority.  I hope you fail.

Al
(Don't Be Stupid: Proverbs 12:1)
posted by Hardliner4freedom on Oct 8, 2007 at 07:08 AM

I appreciate your chiming in here and proving me correct.

http://people.bakersfield.c...

 

posted by mattloch on Oct 8, 2007 at 08:58 AM
nodeceit: "The Majority is Christian-"

Too bad (for you, and your ilk as Hardliner mentions) the Constitution is designed to protect the minorities of this country from the excesses of the majority.

You can practice you religion privately all you want. Just keep it out of the government (that includes the government-run schools). Why is that so hard to understand?
posted by loadtoed on Oct 8, 2007 at 10:24 AM

Actually, Madison never said that.  He was in fact quite opposed to the intermingling of church and state.  As far as the reported Chief Justice Marshall quote- I am not certain one way or the other.   Here is an actual quote from Madison regarding the separation of church and state:

"The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State." (1819).

And since we are looking at the history of this great nation, here is some more;

"Congress should not establish a religion and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any manner contrary to their conscience, or that one sect might obtain a pre-eminence, or two combined together, and establish a religion to which they would compel others to conform" (Madison, Annals of Congress, 1789).

"How a regulation so unjust in itself, so foreign to the authority of Congress, and so hurtful to the sale of public land, and smelling so strongly of an antiquated bigotry, could have received the countenance of a committee is truly a matter of astonishment ." (Madison, 1785, letter to James Monroe, on a failed attempt by congress to set aside public funds to support churches)

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish [Muslim], appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit. I do not mean by this declaration to condemn those who believe otherwise; they have the same right to their belief as I have to mine. But it is necessary to the happiness of man that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime. He takes up the profession of a priest for the sake of gain, and in order to qualify himself for that trade he begins with a perjury. Can we conceive anything more destructive to morality than this?" (Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason)

"Encourage free schools, and resolve that not one dollar of money shall be appropriated to the support of any sectarian school. Resolve that neither the state nor nation, or both combined, shall support institutions of learning other than those sufficient to afford every child growing up in the land the opportunity of a good common school education, unmixed with sectarian, pagan, or atheistical tenets. Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church, and the private schools, supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church and state forever separated." (Ulysses S. Grant)

"The divorce between Church and State ought to be absolute. It ought to be so absolute that no Church property anywhere, in any state or in the nation, should be exempt from equal taxation; for if you exempt the property of any church organization, to that extent you impose a tax upon the whole community." (James A. Garfield)

So I guess our founding fathers (and other important Americans) were liberals.  What exactly is a liberal?  Does favor of separation of church and state make one a liberal?  I oppose gun control, I am for the death penalty, I support our military, and I don't believe in god.  Yep, I must be a liberal!

posted by TomW on Oct 8, 2007 at 10:48 AM
NoDeceit, how is keeping a poster out of a school suppression? If we allow the poster, will you then feel you are not being silenced?  How many graven images need to be posted in how many places before you feel you are not being silenced?
posted by RosemarysAbortionist on Oct 8, 2007 at 10:56 AM
Please don't use embedded tables. They foul up the formatting.
posted by TomW on Oct 8, 2007 at 10:56 AM
Nancy, I understand that calling someone a slut is insulting.  I think that the problem is that the phrase, as a phrase, takes on a different meaning to those familiar with it.

Here's the phrase being used on NBC's The Office: http://www.youtube.com/watc...

We're all coming from different place with different experiences and cultural references, which is sometimes easy to forget when you're alone in a room screaming at a computer monitor.  :)
posted by sagefever on Oct 8, 2007 at 11:01 AM
"The work of many minds, the Constitution stands as a model of cooperative statesmanship and the art of compromise."

experiencehttp://www.archives.gov/nat.../charters/constitution.html          nodecit~ from the United States government~ apparently the Constitution had many Fathers. (sorry ,hope this fixes the format)

posted by sfinboston52 on Oct 8, 2007 at 11:04 AM
Vegas= Pathetic
posted by mattloch on Oct 8, 2007 at 11:24 AM
If this is supposed to be about history, then why wouldn't it be required in just history classes? If this was about history, why wouldn't other historical document be included? If this was about morality, why wouldn't it be required in just humanities classes? If this was about teaching children morals, what good does it do in high school, when by all estimates their morals and ethics are pretty much set (at least as far as being swayed by a poster goes)?

This proposal does not pass the smell test for any of these innocent explanations. Which means something more insidious is at work here.

By reading the postings of those who support this proposal, it is painfully obvious what is being tried here, and what is at stake. Just as Bush used certain "codewords" during his speeches to let Evangelicals know that he was their kind of President, Vegas is using certain codewords to let religious individuals know what he's trying to do, while trying not to tip off those who aren't paying attention. And when they're called on it, they claim "persecution" and expect opponents to back off. Or they call "patriotism" and try to scare them off. In either case, those tricks only work on the weak-minded.
posted by nodeceit on Oct 9, 2007 at 08:43 AM
The Key is CONGRESS. 

Instead of reposting the entire article just read the following http://www.michaelmedved.co...

Al
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