I bet the backer is Harvey Hall

What is their tribal name? Most of the Indians in this area have been here for approximately 1000 to 1500 years. The name Tejon is a Spanish word for badger. The Spanish came into this area at about 1773. The only topographical area named Tejon around here is a creek near which the Sebastian Military Preserve (or Tejon Indian Reservation) was established around 1853 and remained until 1864, a period of eleven years. If, as Jim Apodoca asserts, "We have always had a govt. to govt. relationship", why isn't the Tejon Indian Tribe listed in A.L. Krober's Handbook of the Indians of California which is an unabridged republication of Bulletin #78 of the Bureau of American Ethnology of the Smithsonian Institution, 995 pages, first published in 1925? Krober did an exhaustive study of the California Indians for a period of 17 years of intermittent acquaintance and occupation, surely he would have heard of the Tejon Tribe and included them in his tome. If they took their name from the reservation then who were they before they came to the reservation? I've done an internet search and found that the Kawaiisu are claiming the title of "the tribe of the Tejon Indian Reservation" and even Krober notes in his book that the Kawaiisu were known as the Tejon Indians to the local Americans. But, the Tejon Indian Reservation was in the Kitanemuk range, and the Tejon Pass and Fort Tejon was approximately 17 miles to the west which was in the Chumash range. So, is this Tejon Indian Tribe separate and apart from any of the other tribes that inhabited the area that we know as Tejon? I would like to learn more about them.

I'm with you dragoon.  I thought Tejon was a Spanish word.  Tell us more Lois.

If a casino is in the works, may I recommend purchasing the Big West refinery or the PG&E place on Rosedale and converting it to a gaming casino?  Perhaps with that added economic boost, Lois would get her water in the river.

This article may be of help to those missing the background: mountainenterprise.com/atf.php

Edit: And here's a second article from KGET: www.kget.com/news/local/story/17-News-Special-Rep ort-Betting-on-Bakersfield/JxUUIICIHUOxOIl7SW58eQ .cspx

Dragoon, what about Sebastian Reservation? Anywhere close to Tejon? I'm clueless, obviously. First, I was Pauite and Shoshone, now I'm Tubatulabal and yes, even been called Kawaiisu, The Tubatulabal have been trying to reinstate their Federal recognition for years and still no success.

Thanks Shwaine. The assertion that the Kitanemuk/Yowlumne tribes constitute the Tejon band makes more sense than simply calling themselves the Tejon Indian Tribe. However, there were more than just two bands that inhabited that area and that were on the Sebastian reservation. I suppose they could all lay individual claim to that title like the Kawaiisu did, but it seems to me that they would stand a better chance at recognition if they all banded together under the umbrella designation of Tejon Indians. I didn't see in either article where Kathryn Morgan identified her tribe other than to call it the Tejon Tribe. Maybe when all of this is settled and they finally get their Casino built they might let me run my own cantina there which I would like to name The Dragoon Saloon. I would only serve Sarsaparilla however, since I took the temperance pledge at Chapultepec in '47.

What tribe(s) were in the Sebastian Reservation? Maybe I ought to hit Shwaine's link for info?

Ah, Shwaine, thanks for the link, I'm not so clueless now!

Bakonative, when talking about Tejon you must distinguish between Tejon Rancho, Tejon Indian Reservation (Sebastian Military Preserve), Tejon Creek......and the areas 17 miles west of the reservation like: Tejon Pass, Fort Tejon, and Grapevine Canyon. These areas were inhabited by distinct individual tribes but while foraging for food undoubtedly crossed over and traveled through each others areas. The reservation had a jumble of tribes living there. The Indians in these areas and the coastal Indians were generally peaceful and were, at times, preyed upon by Paiutes from the Owens Valley area. The Army built a fort in that area named Ft. Independence.

The Shoshone designation that you were labeled with most likely comes from the way these Indian tribes were grouped according to the base language that their particular dialect stemmed from which was Shoshone (Paiute is a bit of a blanket term for Shoshonean people). I referred to them as dialects but that is not entirely accurate. These were distinct languages descended from Shoshone. If you think in terms of the Romance languages like Italian, French, Romanian, Spanish, and Portuguese as being descended from Latin but evolving parallel to each other as dialects until reaching their final form as separate and distinct languages it will help to put it in perspective. Interestingly enough, the longer a people have been in an area the more languages will have evolved. So, you can see that these Indians have been here for a very long time by virtue of the diversity of languages that have sprouted. It is all quite confusing and I am not up to the task of explaining it to anyone's satisfaction including my own. I would recommend getting a copy of Kroeber's book or checking it out at the library. It may be dated information to some, but it is fascinating and contains 419 illustrations and 40 maps, and includes interesting items like the tattoo patterns and face paints of the various tribes as well as actual photographs of individuals. Apollo Dawn might be interested in some of the religious aspects and mythologies of the different tribes as they are all different in the manner in which they explain the origin of the world and how their people were created. Fascinating scholarly work.

Dragoon out.

Heres my fav tag i have used on my personal email for years

         Indian Casino's

I wish Ma was sitill alive to see this..she loved her treks up to hanford and eagle mountain..well when she wasnt headed for vegas or laughlin *grin*

one word of caution..one time she was at eagle mountain and got her purse stolen..the managment refused to allow a viewing of their security videos..probably for fear of incrimenating one of the locals..she got a report a few days later that her credit card was used at one of the stores not too far from there..sooo use them  belly bags folks..and becareful..

one thing I learned from an old indian lady when I went back home to New Mexico a few years ago was to play the smaller machines..it takes longer but the payoff can be better in the long run..they dont pay so much attention to those machines..atleast in her neck of the woods.

and why does the food always *SUCK* at Indian casinos?? somebody needs to pay attention to  that if they want a decent crowd..

So how big a casino is needed to take care of the elderly and educate the children of a 200 member tribe? 

umm another Luxor sized casino would be nice..heck your only thinking on the down side..how many players (elderly and kids) will benifiet from a winning streak?? I know old farts that have won 15 grand or less on a regular basis once they learn how to work the machines..trouble is it takse time and money to get there..but

WHATTA COUNTRY!!

Reparations for Indians have been going on for over 80 years...exactly when do they end?  Like never ?  Every year each man, woman and child receives $10,000..including casino tribe members that are alreading making millions..now that makes sense?  Not bad for having an ethnic birth right...and not having to do a single bit of work to earn it.  Its adds up quickly to billions of dollars every year paid by you and I...the taxayers.  There have been a lot of ethnic groups that have been used disadvantaged by our great United States...remember Slavery or the Relocation camps for the Japanese?  Yet I've have not seen any legislation giving them anything.  It's time to level the playing field.  Indians should be federally recognized and should only be allowed to build casinos on their own original Reservations...No Reservation Shopping !  Indians should also be required to share there wealth with all tribe members.  The Chiefs / Chairmans of these tribes have being cutting out members because of an insatiable greed for themselves $$$.  They are doing to their own people what they claim the United States Government did to them hundreds of years ago. The Casinos and shopping malls Indian Tribes build should be paying the same TAXES as regular business in the rest of the this COUNTRY.  Fair competition...Capitalism at it's best.  I'm a dreamer but not the only one.

Who gets 10 grand a year?  None of the Indian heritage people I know get that kind of money.  Which tribes?  What number on the rolls do you have to be?

The financial backer wanting this casino will need really deep pockets for the longhaul. I am speculating a fight against this casino venture from the cardrooms in California who contribute a lot of money to the campaigns of the politians who are responsible for extending the moritorium against any new cardroom licenses in California. You see, the cardrooms and existing casinos do not want any competition so they have band together to ensure through campaign contributions to the right people that their businesses are protected from competition. The paper trail speaks for itself. Sometimes they are disguised through third parties. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all eliminate any new ventures that would compete with our own. Whether you are for or against this casino venture, these businesses would pump in millions and millions of dollars anually to the surrounding towns. The crime issues are no less manageable than they are now. A criminal is a criminal where ever they are. Tejon Ranch has stated they have no interest in selling any portion of their land for this so why not lease some land from the industrial complex. Our local economy could use the money.

Please send me my check...I want to go fishing...and get rid of another 100 tribal members so I can get a really FAT check.

Funds distributed to a person of Indian descent may represent mineral lease income on property that is held in trust by the United States or compensation for lands taken in connection with governmental projects. Some Indian tribes receive benefits from the federal government in fulfillment of treaty obligations or for the extraction of tribal natural resources — a percentage of which may be distributed as per capita among the tribe's membership.

SandyDoo...who wouldn't want a Monopoly on Class III slot machines?...but only the Indians Tribes can have them. I know, I know...Indian Tribes are Sovereign Nations that use the United States infrastructure.  It's also very interesting that Indian Tribes defeated Electronic Charity Bingo in California contending that electronic CHARITY BINGO violates agreements with the state that give them exclusive use of slot machines. It took took two weeks and Millions of Dollars from Indian Tribes..to put the Disabled Citizens, like my Grandma, in there place. She can't work a bingo daubber with her crippled hands...pushing a button was so much easier...oh well you will have to spend the remaining few days of you life miserable with nothing to do.  It was a very sad day for little Johnny that has many disabilities and needed the CHARITY money for his new wheel chair !  Talk about MEGA GREED !

Equality....I agree with you entirely. I guess the threating phone calls we received when we intended on opening a cardroom/casino at the end of the moritorium in 2012 has been a real eye-opener. No worries now though. The moritorium has been extended and probably will be indefinitly.

There won't be a Grapevine casino until the "Tejon Indians" gain federal recognition and tribal members of the various tribes comprising the body of "Tejon Indians" including Chumash, Coastanoans, Kawaiisu, Kitanemuks, Kowlummnes, Yokuts and others listed in the federal description of "Tejon Indians" in the congressional historical records of the Sebastian Reservation are fully documented.

The Tejon Ranch company, under the direction of Civil war hero General Edward S. Beale who later became head of The Bureau of Indian Affairs and also Federal Surveyor of the reservation and surrounding ranch lands in question, wrested ownership of the reservation land from the Indians following a court case in which Tejon Ranch Company successfully convinced the courts that the Indians had "abandoned" the lands when most were forced from the Sebastian reservation and shipped to the Tule reservation and other places.

Before contesting Tejon Ranch Company's ownership of the land and revisiting what appears to be a flawed judicial decision, the surviving Indians must mount the giant hurdle of conclusively proving their Native American lineage.

Documentation of the surviving progeny of the various tribes is a monumental task since their lineage has been diluted by centuries of matriculation with other Hispanics, Caucasians and other tribes.

Indians of the mission era were  given Hispanic surnames by Spanish missionaries, followed by decades of intermarriage with other Indian tribes and Hispanics which further blurred their bloodlines.

Indian activist Dee Dominquez has been successful in documenting many various tribal descendants through exhaustive research of family records, etc., but many, or perhaps even most, of the Kern County area Chumash and other tribes have been unable to provide sufficient documentation of their lineage even though some have demonstrated their tribal connection through DNA matches from samples collected by a Santa Barbara university professor who has established a DNA data base for that purpose.

Meanwhile, Tejon Ranch Company is adamantly opposed to airing the details of the way in which the company acquired the reservation lands and tribal elders have been hesitant to rile Tejon Ranch for fear of losing permission from the company to visit ancestral grave sites.

With its vast resources, Tejon Ranch Company will not give up the lands without a legal battle and the tribes lack the resources to wage that war. Even with the proper resources and pro bono legal representation, the Indians have little chance of gaining reparation for the Sebastian Reservation lands without conclusive proof of lineage which meets the federal minimum standard blood line percentage and other factors which would qualify them for federal tribal recognition.

However, having said all that, Tejon Ranch might rethink its position (maybe it already has) and cede a piece of land to the Indians for a share in the lucrative gambling business in which it could not otherwise be legally involved and which it could easily finance.

The bottom line is, the Indian issue is a highly complicated affair which is a long, long way from resolution.

A bet on a Grapevine Casino is a long, long shot at best. 

A couple of minor corrections:

1. Lt. Edward Beale, U.S. Navy, was a US/Mexican War hero (not a Civil War hero) as a result of his actions at the battle of San Pasqual near San Diego, CA.

2. Edward Beale was appointed Brigadier General in the California Militia by Gov. John Bigler (1852-1856) to increase his importance while negotiating treaties with California Indian tribes, and Surveyor General of California and Nevada by President Abraham Lincoln in 1861.

We are of peace, always.

Dragoon out.

I would rather see all of the oil wells working. I would rather see farming again successful: I would rather see logging back in our mountains. I would rather see fishing is our streams. I would rather see fishing off the coast of California. I would rather see environmental groups be stopped from registering frivolous lawsuits.

www.DownsizeCaNow.Com

Agreed, JKeyes. Good old honest hard work to stimulate our economy by the virtue of the free market rather than indulgence in human vices.

The problem, once again my friends, is us. We let the toothpast out of the tube when we looked for easy money via state lotteries, then the Indians (BTW, where in the hell is my $10000?) got to build casinos. Gambling takes in billions and gives back very, very little to the general public. Money spent on slots does not go to buy groceries, school supplies, books, or clothes.