I appreciate your insight Pax..but there are too many self centerd loons running amuck that will not want to understand what your trying to say. I do agree with abortion in extreme cases..but not as birth control for being careless on a friday night..i prefer mandatory sterilization of unfit parents that have proven time and time again they are just baby machines ..They wont stop taking drugs or support the 4 or 5 they already have..thats a program i would back 100%

 "If not for Obama's mamma choosing life ... "

Shoot ...

What do you think  would've happened if your mamma opted for an abortion ? 

She didn't !  What moral joy at her decision.

--virgil

Pax and Sioux

If it weren't for your own mothers choosing life you wouldn't be here worrying what Obama's mother decided.

Virgil

Great minds, etc...................................

Alternately, if Barbara Bush had just made the right choice we might never have lost 4229 Americans needlessly in Iraq.  Lots of possibilities to consider in alternate history.

And it does bring up a very good point--Obama being raised "right" in a *SECULAR* household and growing up to be President.  There's a reason he specifically mentioned atheists positively in his inauguration speech.  He's got first-hand experience.

Barbara is a supporter of a woman's right to choose.

Hm...

Bad choice ...

--virgil

Uh well if it werent for your mamma choosing life you two wouldnt be here either...looks like you just  prove the point..thanks...besides some of us were planned and had great parents

Barbara is a supporter of a woman's right to choose

So is Laura.

Sioux,

I actually did not see a point - I saaw a Tautology.

You can't  argue tautology - it's a duh statement - it's pointless.

--virgil

Wasn't obama raised by his grandparents? You know the "typical white person."

Sioux

What's your point?  Obama's mother chose life, so did yours, mine and Pax's.    There have also been pregnancies that, if not terminated, may have eventually led to serial killers and child molesters.  Does that prove that abortion is the best decision for every pregnancy?  Of course not.

besides some of us were planned and had great parents

And some were planned and had mediocre parents.  And some were planned and had hideous parents.   The point of "planned" is that you have a choice--and Obama and I will both continue working--admittedly at different levels--to see that women continue to have a choice.  

for those who don't have a way to scroll to the top..here's a recap

I appreciate your insight Pax..but there are too many self centered loons running amuck that will not want to understand what your trying to say. I do agree with abortion in extreme cases..but not as birth control for being careless on a Friday night..

if your going to have sex in this day and age with all the preventative measures available..there is no excuse for being irresponsible..lazy yes but a baby shouldn't have to be killed because you suck as a human being..

 if your going to have sex in this day and age with all the preventative measures available..there is no excuse for being irresponsible..

Some of those "preventative" measures include after-conception measures.  Using them can be and is just as "responsible" as using birth control.  Deal with it.

RF Some of those "preventative" measures include after-conception measures.  Using them can be and is just as "responsible" as using birth control.  Deal with it.

[Photo removed by Admin]

spoken from experience no doubt?? do ya feel real responsible now RF?? do you get a rush off being in control of life and death??

due to too many beers instead of using latex you had a innocent babe dislodged from its mothers woom with a spike...and murdered on a stainless steel platter??   whatta man you are..

YOU DEAL WITH IT DADDY!!

Sioux

The picture and your words to RF are uncalled for.   

ahh reality is uncalled for?? if he never was involved in an abortion and he had a loving family from the result of choosing life I seriously doubt he would be talking smack..i agreed certain cases abortion was needed but not careless promiscuity..im gettin off this blog.. this type of thinking makes me ill..

ahh reality is uncalled for??

The reality is that safe, legal abortion is every bit as much a good thing as safe, legal open-heart surgery.   And I seriously doubt that you have much interaction with "reality," especially on this subject.

It is not up to you to define "careless promiscuity," or even to define it as a bad thing for anyone but yourself.  The woman and the doctor are the two people to make the decision.  Not you, not me, not Pax and *CERTAINLY* not an allegedly celebate man wearing skirts in the Vatican.

i have as much right to support what i believe in as you do big guy..so you might as well put some steak sauce on those words bubs

RF And I seriously doubt that you have much interaction with "reality," especially on this subject

And poud of it BUCKO...Im sure you cant say the same if you ever aborted an innocent child....go ahead with your profoundness..your speakin to the hand

And I'll oppose you every step of the way, because opposing ignorance is *ALWAYS* the right thing to do.

must be no mirrors in your house..and if you TRULY opposed ignorance you wouldn't be supporting those that decline to use prevention..your just shooting yourself in the foot here RF

Plenty of mirrors, Sioux, and no reason not to have them.  

if you TRULY opposed ignorance you wouldn't be supporting those that decline to use prevention..

How about those who use prevention but it doesn't work?

How about those who are raped?

How about those who didn't have contraceptives available because their pharmacist promotes ignorance?  Or because their church promotes ignorance?   Or their parents?

I oppose those who seek to *IMPOSE* ignorance on people.  The Roman Catholic Church is one of the major vendors in that area.  I'm all for contraceptive education.

 RF The reality is that safe, legal abortion is every bit as much a good thing as safe, legal open-heart surgery. 

Ya missed the HUGE DIFFERENCE..one is to save a life the other to end one..

 RF How about those who didn't have contraceptives available because their pharmacist promotes ignorance?

hahah are we grasping for straws now??

and i told you some cases required abortion..and i told you some cases required abortion..and i told you some cases required abortion..and i told you some cases required abortion..and i told you some cases required abortion..

NOT IGNORANT IRRESPONSIBLE BUMPIN& nbsp;UGLYS...if they are adult enough to do it they should be adult enough to deal with it...The child shouldn't have to suffer because of the indiscretions of its parents..

 im gettin off this blog..

And good riddance, souxsie. Regardless of your opinions, that photograph is uncalled for and you only put it up for shock factor. Don't bother replying. I won't read it anyway. Hopefully I will not be the only one ignoring you from here on.

the photo is reality..everyone can back this but when they get their noses rubbed in the actual result they want to just turn their head.and close their eyes..

i didnt create that photo..two other responsible adults did..sorry if it offend all the staunch supporters on abortion.

incase you havent realized it offends me a million times over..and if your against what im saying then have at it..i cant believe a mother of five would support this..shakin my head on this one

and i was gettin off the blog until he hit me with a cheap shot so I had to defend myself.

 Ya missed the HUGE DIFFERENCE..one is to save a life the other to end one..

Nope.  Every late-term abortion is done for medical necessity.   And I could post gory, blood-drenched photos of open-heart surgeries.  I won't, because my aim is to oppose ignorance, not to celebrate it.

incase you havent realized it offends me a million times over..

Deliberate ignorance offends me. 

liberals.....ill never understand them.....they will fight to the death to keep the biggest piece of poop on the planet alive (death penalty), but yet not have a problem killing someone that hasnt even proven themselves yet (abortion)

liberals.....ill never understand them.....

Add education and try again, learnem.   But I'll try to resolve your question in short, easy words.

I oppose the death penalty because the government should not have that power, even if you personally despise like the convict.

I support the right to abortion because the alternatives are worse, and that "someone" is not a person, no matter how much you personally despise the mother. 

And make no mistake, opposition to abortion is *ALL* about despising the woman involved.  Read SCR's posts above and you'll see it.

dont twist my words to benifit your cause RF..I dont give you that permission....i never used the words despise..what gives you the right to sensationalize on our exchange?? I could care less about the woman..she isnt the one being killed..she'll be out boozin and cruisn by the weekend..

what i despise is you lack of feelings for the innocent on this subject

 RF And I could post gory, blood-drenched photos of open-heart surgeries.  I won't, because my aim is to oppose ignorance, not to celebrate it.

no you choose to ignore the REALITY of your actions..

Add education and try again

so you are saying that all the education you have has no commons sense attached?  what do you say about women that use abortion as a way out of responsibility???  

So an inconvenient truth was censored? Guess that's in keeping with the old saying: "See no evil, hear no evil, say no evil."

Actually, it's more like, "you want to play in the Californian's website, don't make messes."

.

so you are saying that all the education you have has no commons sense attached?

No, I'm suggesting that your getting more education might make up for your lack of common sense.  As evidenced by your avatar, to name but one item.

Spam code censored but it suggests that we can dispense with politeness, in a rather forceful way...

 dont twist my words to benifit your cause RF..I dont give you that permission....

1)  Don't need your permission, thanks.

2)  You wrote that you despise women who become pregnant although you haven't given them permission--you just didn't use the word to do so.

No, I'm suggesting that your getting more education might make up for your lack of common sense.  As evidenced by your avatar, to name but one item.

Spam code censored but it suggests that we can dispense with politeness, in a rather forceful way...

totally dodging the issue, and going on a personal attack........obviously cannot answer the questions posed to you

why feel the need to personally attack me ?   and attacking me for my avatar....pretty petty.......circling the drain are ya????

A) yes you do

B) your ranting RF. I wrote what I meant. Im sorry if your brain is in such chaos you cant comprehend my meaning so you feel the need to construct one of your own.

not a drain learnem...more like a flush

Back to topic........

“his supporters wouldn't have been blessed with having the most extreme pro-abortion candidate elected to the White House. Guess he made sure not to be reminded of that discomforting fact by not having any Catholic clergy present during his inauguration.”

Last time I checked, the new vice president is a Catholic.

From your link....................

“In fact, that’s exactly what Cardinal Mahony did by raising the issue of abortion in both the homily and the invocation that he delivered to the Democrats who assembled in his city in 2000. “O God, we trust that you will keep us ever committed to protect the life and well-being of all people but especially unborn children, the sick and the elderly, those on skid row and those on death row,” Cardinal Mahoney prayed in the invocation.”

Ironic statement considering how hard Mahoney, and many others, worked to protect and prevent prosecution of pedophiles within the clergy.

Catholics in general are good people, but Mahoney’s statement rings hollow considering his record, and he lacks real moral authority based on his actions.

Public memories are still fresh concerning the Catholic child abuse scandal.

This was probably the primary reason that Catholic clergy wasn’t present.

Learnem/Siouxcity, at the heart of the anti-abortion movement is an anti-woman movement.    Your denials do nothing to refute that; it shines out in your words.

"Uh well if it werent for your mamma choosing life you two wouldnt be here either...looks like you just  prove the point..thanks...besides some of us were planned and had great parents"

wtf is that supposed to mean? that was like super rude!  just because you don't plan your kid or are a single parent doesn't mean squat! 

PRO CHOICE !

i'll bet you're one of those horrible people that stand in front of the clinic and hold up awful signs and scream terrible things at the people going inside.

 how would you feel if your step dad molested you at age 13 and you got pregnant and you were going in to have a procedure done only to have people that knew nothing of your situation telling you you're a wh*re and you're going to hell. I USED TO GET FORCED WHEN I WAS LIKE 10 TO STAND OUT THERE AND PICKET, IT'S THE MOST HORRIBLE AWFUL THING I'VE EVER DONE IN MY LIFE! who are you to judge? what someone does with their life is NONE of your business, be it, a drunken accident, rape, molestation, or just too damn stupid or young to handle the responsibilty, people like you make me SICK.

 at the heart of the anti-abortion movement is an anti-woman movement.

Is that the feminist version of the race-card?

I support the right to abortion because the alternatives are worse, and that "someone" is not a person, 

It's nice to see someone taking up where Douglas left off in the Lincoln-Douglas debates

 how would you feel if your step dad molested you at age 13 and you got pregnant and you were going in to have a procedure done 

This in the world of logic my dear, is called a red herring. Can you cite me a percentage of 13 year old pregnant girls who were knocked up by step-daddy? My guess it wouldn't come close to a majority.

 who are you to judge?

Um, taxpaying citizens of this country for one. But just imagine if that asinine statement were applied to other great miscarriages of justice throughout history. I mean, who are you to judge the slaveholder for cracking that whip, because at that time blacks were not considered a full person.

Is that the feminist version of the race-card?

Nope.  It's simply the truth.  Amazing how often feminism and truth are the same thing, though.

i don't judge. and taxpayers? wtf are you talking about? taxpayers don't pay for abortions, the people having them do. and i didn't live in the time of slavery and it was the way of life back then, but how can you even compare the two? and the step dad analogy was an example. zapped are you even a woman? cause men really don't have any place to say anything, you're not the one who has to live with the decision. and maybe if men were more likely to stick around after they "knocked up" a woman, she's be less likely to abort in the first place.

I wasn't to give this post attention, but now that we're talking about my very personal rights...  :)

"Can you cite me a percentage of 13 year old pregnant girls who were knocked up by step-daddy? My guess it wouldn't come close to a majority."

It doesn't matter if it happens to only three per year.  How do we deal with those three?

"This in the world of logic my dear, is called a red herring."

No, the argument about the percentage of 13-year old girls was.  It doesn't matter if it's one or 10,000.  Whomever suffers from the consequences of child sexual abuse needs to be treated fairly and not endure the consequences of someone else's crime unless she chooses to.

"Nope.  It's simply the truth.  Amazing how often feminism and truth are the same thing, though."

Yeppers.  :)

"cause men really don't have any place to say anything, you're not the one who has to live with the decision. and maybe if men were more likely to stick around after they "knocked up" a woman, she's be less likely to abort in the first place."

Exactly, and in addition to that, men don't undertake the physical risks of childbearing.  We do.

Childbearing is not a safe process.  Abortion saves lives.

On the 36th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, we are reminded that this decision not only protects women’s health and reproductive freedom, but stands for a broader principle: that government should not intrude on our most private family matters. I remain committed to protecting a woman’s right to choose.

While this is a sensitive and often divisive issue, no matter what our views, we are united in our determination to prevent unintended pregnancies, reduce the need for abortion, and support women and families in the choices they make.  To accomplish these goals, we must work to find common ground to expand access to affordable contraception, accurate health information, and preventative services.  

On this anniversary, we must also recommit ourselves more broadly to ensuring that our daughters have the same rights and opportunities as our sons: the chance to attain a world-class education; to have fulfilling careers in any industry; to be treated fairly and paid equally for their work; and to have no limits on their dreams.  That is what I want for women everywhere.

(White House statement on today's anniversary.)