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Elemental Disruption

"Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats." Diane Arbus

My life seems to operate sideways~ backwards almost~ and I have come to see thats right for me. A rain of snakes,disruption that cause's growth ,the world split in two.Everyone has there own path,mine has been one of thought,mostly of things folks today seem to disregard. Truth, personal integrity,politeness,...not all eschew these things.For me its been the easiest way to be~ any other way leads me to more trouble..and a sense of humor,above all about myself. Laughter keeps a person sane,and I enjoy seeing the coyote in myself~ the eternal trickster

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sagefever - > Deep Thoughts~whats in ,on my mind and whats out there. -> Would You Slap Your Father? If So, You’re a Liberal
Would You Slap Your Father? If So, You’re a Liberal


By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOFPublished: May 27, 2009
New York Times
  “If you want to tell whether someone is conservative or liberal, what are a couple of completely nonpolitical questions that will give a good clue?

  How’s this: Would you be willing to slap your father in the face, with his permission, as part of a comedy skit?
  And, second: Does it disgust you to touch the faucet in a public restroom?


  Studies suggest that conservatives are more often distressed by actions that seem disrespectful of authority, such as slapping Dad. Liberals don’t worry as long as Dad has given permission.
  Likewise, conservatives are more likely than liberals to sense contamination or perceive disgust. People who would be disgusted to find that they had accidentally sipped from an acquaintance’s drink are more likely to identify as conservatives.
  The upshot is that liberals and conservatives don’t just think differently, they also feel differently. This may even be a result, in part, of divergent neural responses.”
  More of this interesting piece here.

  As the issues come and go, as we delve into each others hearts, minds, souls and belief systems some (myself included) can get into “heated" discussions. Some speak of deeply held repulsions, ponder how others can be so inane as to not see the problem as they do…
I found this opinion piece to be quite remarkable. Bold and italics mine.


  “The larger point is that liberals and conservatives often form judgments through flash intuitions that aren’t a result of a deliberative process. The crucial part of the brain for these judgments is the medial prefrontal cortex, which has more to do with moralizing than with rationality. If you damage your prefrontal cortex, your I.Q. may be unaffected, but you’ll have trouble harrumphing.

One of the main divides between left and right is the dependence on different moral values. For liberals, morality derives mostly from fairness and prevention of harm. For conservatives, morality also involves upholding authority and loyalty — and revulsion at disgust.”


  The article links to the “disgust scale” test and a interesting site that involves moderates on both sides reaching out to each other to try to forge understanding,
www.civilpolitics.org  Considering the countless posters that have graced these pages only to never return, these subjects may be timely.


  It has been noted before, what is needed is to turn that eye inward to discover ones own prejudices. Knowing yourself truly helps nurture better relationships ,both in the real and the cyber world. Then understanding how Human Beings reach their conclusions~ all through that portal of flash intuition~ perhaps we can see the wisdom in refraining with being so harsh with each other.


  I am not stupid, obtuse, starry eyed, or defective in some other way~  just wired a bit differently than you, or you or even you.


Neither are you better, smarter, more logical~ just wired a bit different from me.

We all reach our conclusions through that "intuative portal" in our brains,not through reasoning.


  ““Minds are very hard things to open, and the best way to open the mind is through the heart,” Professor Haidt says. “Our minds were not designed by evolution to discover the truth; they were designed to play social games.””

My goal is to keep that last bit in front of my mind as I go about my life. The words “the spiritual warriors battle is always with herself” never rang clearer or with more truth.


Posted in the Relationships interest group.
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posted by sagefever on Saturday, May 30, 2009 at 10:49 AM
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posted by ApolloDawn on May 30, 2009 at 11:20 AM

Very good piece, Sage.

There will always be a small minority whose brains are wired to discover the truth, society be damned.  How we treat them, how we accommodate them, welcome them, and respect them, are important keys to the future greatness of any society.

When I look at people, I see different mixtures of qualities.  Some truly have little interest in truth and are ruled by negative emotional impulses.  Others are interested in truth, but benefit (or suffer) from various tendences to allow emotional reactions to interfere with that interest.  For most people, learning to find the truth with minimal diversion by emotional impulses requires self-discipline and cultivation of the skill.

We vary in that quality of empathy, too.  Many have it; some are soulless empty skeletons; some are truly evil with "empathy" that leads to behaviors opposite those expected of good people.

We have varying interests in truth and emotions.  Empathy shapes the ways that we put those interests to work.

posted by sagefever on May 30, 2009 at 11:56 AM

I'll agree with that AD. I like to think I am that sort~ finding some universal truths has been a goal for sometime now.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

posted by Pedrothejordan on May 30, 2009 at 12:14 PM

Here is a great website where you can take a series of tests to look for patterns in your value systems.  Most of the questions revolve around the same concepts in the piece: authority, fairness, harm, loyalty..etc. 

posted by CatherineBaker on May 30, 2009 at 01:09 PM

This is like other things I've read that say that "conservative" and "liberal" are hard-wired into our brains--like personalities. 

On a side note--I took the disgust test and scored really high.  I've always figured it was because I was a real spaz when it came to gross stuff.  I'm also a spaz when it comes to potential threats. 

Does this mean I'm really a conservative?  ; )

posted by adampayne on May 30, 2009 at 01:38 PM

Really intersting piece. Thanks, sagefever. BTW, Nicholas Kristof has a fan page on Facebook you can sign up for if you enjoy his stuff.


posted by ALICEN on May 30, 2009 at 01:38 PM

Sage:  I think I'm a conservative!  I didn't take any of the tests.  The one recommended by another blogger required one to sign in, and, sorry, I'm not going to sign in to answer a bunch of what are probably personal questions.  (Does that make me ultra-conservative????  LOL.)

posted by sagefever on May 30, 2009 at 02:01 PM

Possibly Alicen. :-)

Thanks for the My Space tip adam!

The take away, for me at least ,was that while we are wired differently, we reach our judgments by that medial prefrontal cortex,a intuitive organ.  

That sure makes me less judgmental about all those wrong headed folks out there! ;-)

 

 

posted by Shwaine on May 30, 2009 at 02:55 PM

Catherine, it might not make you conservative, but didn't you say your husband is conservative? Maybe it made you attracted to a conservative :)

And Alicen, being aware of privacy concerns is just a matter of survival online. Even signing up here, I only gave what I consider to be my "public" information on the registration form.

posted by vanityfair on May 30, 2009 at 05:31 PM

Sage, excellent post. To answer the initial questions, No, and Yes.

Even with permission in a comedy skit, there is absolutely no way I could slap my father across the face. There is something just so inherently wrong with that! Now, if we're talking about one of my sisters, then that's a completely different story. And I'm not even sure I'd need the permission or comedy excuse. Just kidding ... kind of     ; )

Public restrooms are gross all the way around and frankly I try to avoid them whenever possible. It never ceases to amaze me what pigs women are, especially the ones who "hover" and urinate all over the seat. Or worse, those who do more "serious" business (cant' they wait until they get home?!) and don't bother to flush. Don't even get me started on the sanitary products. Yuck.

The thought of touching a faucet after people like that completely grosses me out. If they can't get the other right, how can I be sure they know how to use toilet paper properly? 

Yup, I'm a conservative, alright! LOL!

posted by tonyh on May 30, 2009 at 08:56 PM

"Would you be willing to slap your father in the face, with his permission, as part of a comedy skit?" -  NO

"Does it disgust you to touch the faucet in a public restroom?" - NO

"People who would be disgusted to find that they had accidentally sipped from an acquaintance’s drink are more likely to identify as conservatives." - This doesn't disgust me...

"For liberals, morality derives mostly from fairness and prevention of harm." - Not true. Effort+Success = Reward. Fairness = Same Effort+Same Success = Same Reward. Liberals believe Equal Reward for all, regardless of individual output. That's not fair.

We all reach our conclusions through that "intuitive portal" in our brains,not through reasoning" - And that intuitive portal has been wired over the course of our lives by our own experiences. "Walks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck, Hmm, Must be a Duck". Most people only have to touch the stove burner once in their life to know that it's hot. Years later, if a person comes along to challenge this "Known" and ask that you touch it again, You'd have to be plane stupid to do it. That "intuitive portal" is programmed with past experience where "reasoning" was used. It keeps us from having to re-invent the wheel every time someone comes along and asks that same question.

 

posted by sagefever on May 30, 2009 at 10:25 PM

Everyone will have their own answers Vanity~ thanks for taking a look at least!


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