A blog about Kern County and News.
About sagefever


Gender:
female
Member Since:
June 30, 2006
Last Signed In:
October 31, 2009
Profile Views:
9244
Blog Views:
29491
View Profile
Send a Message
Send To A Friend
Sign Guestbook
Add as a Friend

Previous Posts
The Womans Conference~ 2009
Men Who Stare At Goats
Birthday
A Counterpoint To The Race Card: Acknowledgement and Healing
Chaos:Remember to say I love you.
Hubble New Images~ Beautiful !
Western End of Station Fire Under Control
Death Panels are Real: So is Everything Else (hummor)
What makes a Nazi a Nazi ?
Kseniya Simonova - Sand Animation
Archives
July 06
August 06
September 06
October 06
November 06
December 06
January 07
February 07
March 07
April 07
May 07
June 07
July 07
August 07
September 07
October 07
November 07
December 07
January 08
February 08
March 08
April 08
May 08
June 08
July 08
August 08
September 08
October 08
November 08
December 08
January 09
February 09
March 09
April 09
May 09
June 09
July 09
August 09
September 09
October 09
November 09
Elemental Disruption

"Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats." Diane Arbus

My life seems to operate sideways~ backwards almost~ and I have come to see thats right for me. A rain of snakes,disruption that cause's growth ,the world split in two.Everyone has there own path,mine has been one of thought,mostly of things folks today seem to disregard. Truth, personal integrity,politeness,...not all eschew these things.For me its been the easiest way to be~ any other way leads me to more trouble..and a sense of humor,above all about myself. Laughter keeps a person sane,and I enjoy seeing the coyote in myself~ the eternal trickster

Subscribe!
RSS 2.0 feed RSS 2.0
Add to My Yahoo
Add to My Google
Add to Bloglines
Add to My AOL

Share!


Babies pick cooperation

Co-operation ... makes it happen
Co-operation ... working together
Dig it!
Co-operation ... makes it happen
Co-operation ... working together

 

Funny how prophetic those words from Sesame Street, trying to teach young children a skill they know apparently already know. An interesting study comes out of Yale this month, babies as young as 6 months pick “nice” over “mean”. Babies watched as a “googly-eyed-toy” tried to climb a roller coaster hills. Another googly toy came along and either pushed the toy off the hill or helped it climb. They were then presented with the toys to see which toy they would play with.

Nearly every child picked the “nice” toy over the bad ones. They also picked “nice” toys over neutral toys, toys that neither helped nor hindered. There was no difference between girls and boys. When the toys had their “eyes” removed (their human feature) babies did not make these distinctions.

“It’s incredibly impressive that babies can do this”, said study leader Kiley Hamlin a Yale psychology researcher.” It shows we have these essential social skills occurring without much explicit teaching.”

It makes me wonder just what goes wrong between 10 months old and three, the age we start re-teaching children to be “nice”. That cooperation works.

People regard Mr. Rogers in a dismissive light but I have always thought a good hour of two of his program would do most adults some good. A quick brush up on the use of please and thank you, examples of the many way one can become part of a community, and ways to be a good neighbor~ some of these skills seem to be thrust aside for “me first” mentality. Mr. Rogers says, “You go first, then I’ll follow”~ cooperation, and what follows is sure to be good.

Exactly how we humans navigate the maze that is life fascinates me. There are those that say might is right, man is more animal than human. Then along comes a small study, and we see ourselves anew. Perhaps nice is best, and the choice to less than human is just that~ a choice. Perhaps our natures are colored with the divine, that our better selves are our true selves.

My advice? Go find a friendly baby; try to learn something from that child. Barring that, watch a couple of hours of quality children’s programming. If we learned to be naughty, we can learn to be nice.

Posted in these Groups:
Topics: cooperation
posted by sagefever on Monday, November 26, 2007 at 11:08 AM
Permalink - Comments [4] - Leave a Comment - Report a Violation
Viewed 40 times

"Outrageous" Exaggerations
McCain's ad revisits some oft-mentioned examples of pork, but is he really the one who rooted them out?
Summary
Republican presidential candidate John McCain cites three absurd-sounding examples of pork-barrel spending in a recent ad: a "bridge to nowhere," a study of the DNA of bears and a Woodstock museum.

McCain is known for fighting against earmarks, the other term lawmakers use for funding of pet projects back home. But he appears to have chosen these three because they're easy to mock, not because he had significant involvement in removing them from the budget.
  • He never specifically went after the "bridge to nowhere," and he was absent for key votes on its funding.
  • While he tried to cut money for several other projects in the same bill, he never proposed cutting the bear study and voted for the final bill containing it.
  • He wasn't present for the most important votes on the Woodstock museum, including one on an amendment he co-sponsored to kill the earmark and divert some of the funds.
        -0-

Note: This is a summary only.  The full article with analysis, images and citations may be viewed on our Web site:

Desktop users
            Mobile users

 

 

 

 

 

This message was sent from FactCheck.org to %Member:Email% . It was sent from: FactCheck.org, 320 National Press Building, Washington, DC 20045. You can modify/update your subscription via the link below.  
 


---

 

Posted in these Groups:
Topics: Politics
posted by sagefever on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 04:36 PM
Permalink - Comments [0] - Leave a Comment - Report a Violation
Viewed 17 times

 

The news is not good folks. The deserter rate is up to 1%, which may not sound like much but in an “all volunteer” Army that is quite a few folks who just walk away. A steady increase over the last four years, and a 42% jump since last year point to a stressed out population.4, 698 soldiers deserted this year~ with nearly 64% in the months of April through December. The reasons sound logical to me ~ stress, family problems….oh and that extra 15-month deployment. Toss in some death and destruction and one can see why a person might just walk off. Personally, I cannot imagine the thought process one would have to go through to do that, but it must be a very gut wrenching choice to make. Your spot on your team of brothers~ for make no mistake these people do bond deeply~ or the thing you call your real life exploding to bits back home. The Army wants to stop this bleed off of trained personnel, and hopefully as we take down the number of troops over there that will help.

Sgt. Phil McDowell is one of those deserters. Now living in Canada, he had served one tour in Iraq and was getting out of the Army when Uncle Sam said "not so fast."

"The reason I was being called back was to go to another tour in Iraq, and I didn't agree with that," McDowell told a reporter.

McDowell could eventually be deported from Canada and court-martialed, but for him that beats going back to Iraq.

"If I had been asked to go to Afghanistan I would have gone there," he said. "But the Iraq War I didn't want to have any part of that any more."

Sgt. Brad Gaskins was arrested for leaving the Army more than a year ago. He left his base in New York after being diagnosed with PTSD and severe depression~ and not receiving effective treatment. He was arrested at a local café, while his lawyer was negotiating the terms of his surrender. A 8 year veteran ,he served a peacekeeping tour in Kosovo, and 2 tour in Iraq~ it was during the second tour his problems began .He was assigned to conduct road searches and locating IED’s.

Upon his return to Fort Drum, he began suffering flashbacks, nightmares, sleeplessness, headaches, weight loss and vicious mood swings that take him from depression to irrational rage.

Military doctors sent him to Samaritan Medical Center where he was diagnosed and sent back to Fort drum. At Fort Drum of staff of 12, treat 17,000 soldiers for mental health problems. He asked about returning to the Samaritan facility and was told that would delay any chance he had of a medical release. He asked for a two-week leave, went home and never went back.

He cannot find work because of PTSD, had divorced and has supervised visits with his two children.

Last month the V.A. said that more than 100,000 soldiers were being treated for mental health issues, more than half specifically for PTSD.

Now another alarming figure. In 2005 alone, sit down folks, 120~that is right one hundred and twenty~ veterans took their own lives a week. 120 a week. This figure is twice that of the population that did not serve. That is a National tragedy; something that speaks to it is going to take more than “thanks”, a Hummer full of personal care items and a few parades to fix. These numbers came after a CBS investigation of the V.A., which does not track these suicides.

Veterans' rights advocate Paul Sullivan was a data analyst for the VA from 2000 to 2006.

"I don't think they want to know. We call it the "don't look, don't find" policy," he said. "The VA doesn't collect data, and then they don't have to do anything about it."

 

And now, in addition to these reports criticizing the VA’s treatment and spending practices come two more blows: of nearly 90,000 Army vets who served in Iraq in 2005 and 2006, a study released yesterday found 28.3 percent experienced mental health problems, while the report - due out tomorrow - says while veterans are 11 percent of the general population, they now make up an estimated 25 percent of the homeless.

It is clear that from the physically wounded to the mentally wounded the V.A. is not prepared to handle the flood of soldiers coming back home. Back to us. Back to families, back to friends, back to work. We bang the drum, play the fife, wave that flag and send them off ….and then drop that ball. When you don the uniform, place your hand over your heart you have an expectation that the government will take care of you as promised. The government of the people and by the people~ you and me. We must do better.


Posted in these Groups:
Topics: Veterans, mental health, what we owe them
posted by sagefever on Monday, November 19, 2007 at 09:41 AM
Permalink - Comments [20] - Leave a Comment - Report a Violation
Viewed 79 times

My vacation is at a resort with a golf course designed by this gentleman. It looks very beautiful...will golfers get mad if I just walk the course? ;-)

I am no golfer, but the pictures sure make it look tempting. My Dad played a lot of golf.The last time I went I rolled the golf cart on a steep decline..I was 10. I never got to drive one again..lol.

 So any tips? Besides not rolling over golf carts,that is!

 

Posted in these Groups:
Topics: golf
posted by sagefever on Sunday, November 18, 2007 at 03:55 PM
Permalink - Comments [13] - Leave a Comment - Report a Violation
Viewed 40 times

Taken from the novel by Francine Rivers, directed by Michael Landon Jr.~ staring Henry Thomas, Ellen Burstein,

With the films low production values, the plot being awkward at times, and sometimes a heavy preachy tone~ I can still recommend this to my Christian friends ~ others will not appreciate what charm this small film has. The idea of watching a community go from paganism to Christianity is an enticing one, but the film never really delivers on it’s promise. If I had young children, the themes of death, a scary sin eater figure, a preacher beaten to death, burning of women and children, an adult hurting a young girl and a father severely beating his son might be problematic for the very young.

An stranger comes to the cove, a Welsh conclave in the Appalachia Mountains circa 1830, he is a preacher and seen as a threat and crazy. In my favorite scene, the young heroine comes to him troubled. He preaches at her for several minutes ,reciting verses in his best orator style. He suddenly realizes this is all over her head ~and her need~ that what she needs is compassion. He sits down and asks her what she could have done to vex her soul so..

The rest of the story is best seen, there were some moments that shined, and many others that floundered. But in a landscape lacking in spiritual films.. You may well find it worth the rental

Posted in these Groups:
Topics: films
posted by sagefever on Sunday, November 18, 2007 at 06:21 AM
Permalink - Comments [3] - Leave a Comment - Report a Violation
Viewed 30 times


Clinton vs. Obama
Who's right on health care, Social Security?
Summary
In the latest debate among the Democrats, Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama sparred over their plans for health care and Social Security. We found both presidential candidates guilty of exaggerations and questionable claims:
  • Clinton said that Obama's health care plan would leave 15 million Americans without insurance, while her plan provided universal coverage. Obama countered that his proposal would cover everyone in the country. Clinton's plan will likely cover more people than Obama's, but it's doubtful the difference between their very similar proposals would be as high as the figure Clinton cites.

  • Clinton implied that firefighters would be affected by Obama's proposal to raise the income limit for Social Security taxes above $97,000 a year. Obama implied that his proposal would tax only the "upper class." We found both claims misleading.
Obama also said an employer has a greater chance of being struck by lightning than of being prosecuted for employing an immigrant who's in the U.S. illegally. That turns out to be pretty close to the truth.

-0-

Note:  This is a summary only. For the full article please see our Web site:

Desktop users
Posted in these Groups:
Topics: Politics
posted by sagefever on Friday, November 16, 2007 at 06:19 PM
Permalink - Comments [2] - Leave a Comment - Report a Violation
Viewed 17 times
 

Amargosa~ A ballet company dancer goes to a cocktail party,and on a lark has her fortune told. The woman, holding her ring and a bracelet ,looks into her face and tells her a unimaginable story. She will leave the mecca for dancers,New York,and go to a very rural place and do the best work of her life there, and the letter A ,very large A the fortuneteller says, is hanging over all.

. The couple buy a travel trailer and find themselves in Death Valley Junction(pop.10),while her husband buys gas she explores the street~ and finds the Opera house,deserted and in disrepair but it speaks to her. They find they can rent the place for $45.00 a month plus repairs and that the Spanish called this place Amargosa. So begins the story of a woman dedicated to her art,dedicated to expressing herself,dedicated to beauty.

As the story of Marta Becket unfolds,one thinks what a nut this woman must be,by the time the film ends one wishes it would never stop. At 81 she dances,even if no audience is there. Yet as she has painted a opera house on all four walls,and ceiling she is never alone.

The quirks,the whole story of this amazing creature I leave to you to discover. I highly recommend this Todd Robinson documentary.

http://www.pahrumpvalleytim... a short article about Marta and http://www.todanceonsands.c... a link for her book

Posted in these Groups:
Topics: Amargosa, art, films
posted by sagefever on Tuesday, November 13, 2007 at 10:05 AM
Permalink - Comments [5] - Leave a Comment - Report a Violation
Viewed 41 times

I have a low grade flu~ so what to write, beyond grumbling about a fever, body aches and bad nightmares?

Pakistan looks like a bad thing waiting to happen, yet on Friday I hear the good news Bhutto is released from house arrest and elections~ if we can trust President Pervez Musharraf words ~ will be held in February. Burma continues to be a nightmare of unknown proportions, though word slowly leaks out of death and imprisonment of 1000’s. The state of ‘emergency” continues in former Soviet Georgia, while we wonder if this is a sign of an “old Russia” type threat, in India a twin is separated form her twin and now with the usual 4 limbs is given a chance at a “normal life”. Meanwhile Turkey, troops clashing with Kurdish rebels ,okays plans to build nuclear power plants. And in Venezuela Chavez calls the opposition “fascist’s” as he clamors for more power. Somalia, Congo, Uganda~ all not on “Best vacation” lists, unless you’re a mercenary.

A toy maker in Australia tries to figure out how poison made it’s way into Chinese manufactured craft toy, as two sets of parents wait for their children to come out of coma. Yet another toy recall makes us feel that there will be more toys off the shelf than on them this season. Two girls are given detention for brief hugs ~one to a classmate whose parent had died. At home the drum beats still for war, while many fret it continues to grow ~ perhaps pushing us into yet another country. Pasty faced men in dark suits shuffle papers as they mutter “a low Grade recession” and “other sectors will pick up, saving the economy”, meanwhile looking over their shoulders at gas prices and home heating oil prices careening upwards. FEMA forbids it’s workers from entering the same stored trailers still in use by some 48,000 people in Louisiana and Mississippi . A Conan O’Brian stalking Priest is found fit for trial , as a 9 month old missing for a week is found dead,,58,000 gallons of oil wash ashore in San Francisco. At least 6 televangelists are being investigated by Congress, while they okay our Attorney General at night…and he just isn’t sure water boarding is torture or if it isn’t. I saw the video~ it is. I really shouldn’t write these things while alternating bouts of fever and chills fight for dominance of my body…

We wonder why some give up? We wonder why we ,at times, want to give up? It may be the sick talking but it a wonder we all don’t go buy those “white noise” machines and turn them up on high!

There in lies the rub~ even if we did plug into the white noise ,you and I dear readers would still know what lurks beyond our personal safe “green zone”. And we know the beauty of one found child would not be so clear in it’s joy if not for the absolute heartbreak of the one found dead. I wish it were not so, but good and evil exists only to outline the other. Come ,join me ,lets go find more joy than ill.. and go give aid and comfort what ill we do find.

*crossposted at sirenschronicles*

Posted in these Groups:
Topics: Monday, overload, worry, hope
posted by sagefever on Monday, November 12, 2007 at 08:08 AM
Permalink - Comments [2] - Leave a Comment - Report a Violation
Viewed 19 times

Here is another idea for fail safe giving over the holidays. For the month of November they are asking for your pennies and lose change.

M.A.R.E.~ master abilities riding equines~ is a wonderful therapy program for our disabled community. Horse’s move like we do, albeit with an extra set of legs, but the feeling of their gait can aide the immobile to learn to walk. The sight of a fragile child atop these gentle giants, “controlling” them is a image you never forget. The people who run this program are a dedicated group who spend long hours with the basic’s of horse care and assisting with the rides. My son loved his time there, and even when his hip became mangled they provided a Shetland pony and cart to “drive”. They serve a population from small children to adults. All monies will go to the horses and their riders.

M.A.R.E. 18200 Johnson Road Bakersfield CA. 93314 (661) 589-1877

Various local businesses will have donation canisters, please call for more information. You may also mail your gift.

 

 

Posted in these Groups:
Topics: M.A.R.E., holiday giving, disabled
posted by sagefever on Monday, November 5, 2007 at 09:46 AM
Permalink - Comments [13] - Leave a Comment - Report a Violation
Viewed 108 times

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times....

In the month of February in the year 1988 two boy children were born in this, our great city. One white, born with great physical limitations, condemned to a life of seemingly endless pain and sorrow. The second black, also born with what some consider a limitation but many more possibilities than the first boy. They both attended local schools, becoming part and parcel of this community.

The first was lucky enough to be born into a devoted family, extended family andwith many friends. He never lacked for love, care or such opportunities that his life afforded. He passed away in 2004 loved, quietly with dignity, after bring laughter, joy, insight and tolerance into all the lives he touched.

The second child was born into similar circumstances, but something went terribly wrong along the line. This child grew into a youth, who in the second year after the first died, committed an act of retaliation. He , feeling he had been “dissed” by a neighbor girl, waited till an opportunity presented itself. Calmly he wrapped a kitchen knife in tape, waited till the parents went to work leaving the girl alone, and walked across the street with his weapon. Knocking on the door ,the victim opened it and he began his attack~ eventually after suffering numerous stab wounds to the face and body and fighting him off through out the house she realized she had best feign death or he would kill her. Her ruse worked. He calmly dropped the knife, walked across the street to his home ,his ego repaired from her rebuffs at his attention, showered and with the help of his brothers disposed of the bloody clothes. Meanwhile she crawled to the phone for help, when the police arrived the boy stood smiling in his front yard, beaming with pride and menace as her parents and sisters arrived. She was rushed to the E.R., giving enough information for the attacker to be arrested before she was hurried into surgery. After several anxious hours her family found she would live, and not be horribly scared~ at least obviously.

This family while waiting for the wheels of justice to slowly grind has had to live across from the "alleged" perpetrators family had to endure taunts of "whoever tried to kill that b***h, did not do a good enough job" and the like. The mother and her young daughters live in fear, nightmares a weekly consequence. They all will need long term counseling to deal with the effects of such an act.

The youth stays in a facility awaiting trial for his crime, to which he has pleaded innocent. The trial begins in this month. I hope to be able to report back that justice was metered out. I wonder what is justice here?

I have no answers as to how this happened~ I could consider hopelessness, poverty, stigma, fear of a unknown and horrible future. But I know better.

You see I was the mother of the first young man, all those reasons applied to me and to our situation. So I am left only with darkness of the human heart~ that somewhere amidst all the muscle, the coursing blood, is a unknown organ of hate lurking in the very organ that represents love.

How do you legislate against that?

Posted in these Groups:
Topics: choices in life, crime, justice, Love, Hate
posted by sagefever on Monday, November 5, 2007 at 04:09 AM
Permalink - Comments [3] - Leave a Comment - Report a Violation
Viewed 127 times

With the stunning snow capped mountains and stark deserts of New Mexico as the background character ,a timeless tale of war,revenge and the ultimate futility of such acts this film unwinds from its tight coils.

Pierce Bronson plays the Union officer Gideon, who is fleeing a Confederate Colonel Morsman Carver, wonderfully acted by Liam Neeson. During the civil war a horrific thing occurs under Gideons command which forever binds and divides these two men.

Gideon is an 1800's terminator~sans robotics~ who kills mercilessly,survives the unsurvivable and is haunted by personal demons. Carver is remorselessly driven by rage,he remains focused on his prey as his posey of four is picked off one by one.

Wes Studi makes a cameo appearance as the oracle of the water hole and blazes a trail of subtly for his few moments on the screen

 The devil, in the form of Angelica Houston, appears in the desert to make deals with the desperate men, water and horses for bullets and guns, so the final act of revenge can be carried out.

Flashbacks,very little dialog,visuals,music and heavy atmosphere tell this timeless tale with a twist,not your typical western at all. I recommend this film

Posted in these Groups:
Topics: seraphim falls, film
posted by sagefever on Saturday, November 3, 2007 at 07:39 PM
Permalink - Comments [10] - Leave a Comment - Report a Violation
Viewed 29 times

“Lord take me where you want me to go

Lord have me meet who You want me to meet

Lord let me know what You want me to say

And Lord?

Keep me out of your way”

Saint of 9/11~ is a beautiful tribute to a Franciscan Priest~ Father Mychal Judge remembered by most as the Firemen’s Priest who was killed as the first tower fell. Others can never forget the achingly beautiful photograph ,almost Pieta like, of the grieving firemen carrying his lifeless body away from the carnage. A life, among many others ,was taken that day. It was the life of a complicated human being~ a gay man, an alcoholic, a deeply spiritual man, a Priest, a son, a brother, an tireless benefactor of the poor and sick~ a good life. A life now reduced to pictures, sentences and memory.

He was born may 11,1933 into a immigrant Irish family. His father died when he was only six, and at 15 he began the formation process to enter the Franciscan Community. He tells the story of being at a seminary with one particular young priest, his roommate who he felt a special connection with. As the snow fell outside his window he got up to watch, as did his roommate. They stood there, so close Mychal said he could feel the hot breath on his neck, for two hours lost in the joy of creation and a longing for something else. The next morning at breakfast Father Mychal noticed his friend was late~ returning to their room he found his friends robes folded on his bed. His friend left the order. Father Mychal did not remained a celibate gay man for his entire life, taking that longing for something else and becoming the “peoples priest”.

The documentary ,narrated by Sir Ian McKellen, takes you through his life using stories from his family, fellow Priests ,the gay community he served, the alcoholics he helped(he became sober in 1978) and the street people he inspired, the families he ministered to both here and in Northern Ireland. He longed to become Cardinal, yet knew he danced to a different drummer ,that his path would led him at times to conflict with his Church . He refused to judge others, as he had judged himself enough and finally found freedom. “My all powerful wondrous God has not made the future yet, so for you to worry about tomorrow that God has not made yet is folly~ stay in today” Good advise no matter your spiritual leanings .

It is a beautiful filmed tribute to a Franciscan Father who walked his talk, a truly humble man~ one who knew the power of love. If there is a heaven he got there, dying that day doing what he loved. He was last seen alive with his lips moving in prayer. Blessed Be. May he rest in Peace.

Posted in these Groups:
Topics: saint of 9/11
posted by sagefever on Friday, November 2, 2007 at 09:06 AM
Permalink - Comments [0] - Leave a Comment - Report a Violation
Viewed 25 times
Just the facts ~thats much like the simple truth appears beyond our canidates.
Hillary's High-Stepping
The Democratic front-runner bobs and weaves at a candidate debate in Philadelphia.
Summary
At a Democratic debate in Philadelphia, Sen. Hillary Clinton ducked some questions and gave misleading answers to others.
  • She falsely implied that the reason White House documents about her communications with her husband haven't been released is due to bureaucratic delays, and she avoided saying whether she would ask Bill Clinton to clear their release from the National Archives.
  • She avoided a yes-or-no answer to whether she supports giving New York driver's licenses to illegal immigrants and at one point denied saying the idea made sense, when in fact she said less than two weeks earlier that it "makes a lot of sense."
  • She avoided saying what, if anything, she would do about Social Security taxes or benefits, saying a commission should study the system "if" it has problems, and saying that acting as though the troubled system is in "crisis" is "a Republican trap."
 
       The most recent debate among Democratic candidates took place Oct. 30 at Drexel University in Philadelphia. Absent this time was former Sen. Mike Gravel, who was too low in opinion polls and had raised too little money to be invited by  MSNBC. The front-runner, Sen. Hillary Clinton, faced tough questioning from moderators Tim Russert and Brian Williams of NBC News, and from rival candidates. Her responses were often uninformative and sometimes misleading.

Release of White House Documents

Clinton avoided saying whether she'd urge her husband to tell the National Archives to release documents related to her communications with him while he was president.
Clinton: Well, actually, Tim, the Archives is moving as rapidly as the Archives moves. There's about 20 million pieces of paper there and they are moving, and they are releasing as they do their process. And I am fully in favor of that.
Russert pressed:
Russert: But there was a letter written by President Clinton specifically asking that any communication between you and the president not be made available to the public until 2012. Would you lift that ban?

Clinton:
Well, that's not my decision to make. And I don't believe that any president or first lady has. But certainly we'll move as quickly as our circumstances and the processes of the National Archives permits.

We find her response doubly misleading.

First, the primary reason that no documents related to correspondence between the two of them have been made public is, just as Russert said, that Bill Clinton asked the Archives not to release them until 2012. The Presidential Records Act allows a president, while still in office, to bar disclosure of six categories of documents for 12 years following the end of his or her tenure. One of those categories is “confidential communications requesting or submitting advice, between the President and his advisers.” Communications between a president and his wife are considered to fall in that category. He claimed the exemptions broadly (without mentioning Hillary) in 1994. In 2002, he amended his claims to loosen the restrictions – but specifically identified
communications between himself and the First Lady (among others) as items that should remain sealed until 2012.

clinton.debate Secondly, while Hillary is correct in a legal sense when she says it is "not my decision to make," we have little doubt that her husband would do as she asked should she want the documents made public.

Sen. Clinton is correct on one front: Things are moving slowly at the Clinton Library. According to a declaration filed by the Clinton Presidential Library's then-acting director, Emily Robison, in August 2007, there are just six archivists to sort through what the library's Web site says are 76.8 million pages and 1.85 million photos. Even if she wanted her correspondence with Bill Clinton released, it's not clear that the documents would be processed before the election.

But while she may also be correct that other presidents haven’t allowed access to communications between themselves and their wives before the 12 years were up, none of those wives were running for president themselves
and holding out their experience in the White House as a qualification for election.

Driver's Licenses for Illegal Immigrants

Clinton bobbed and weaved on whether illegal immigrants should be granted driver's licenses, avoiding a yes-or-no answer but denying her own words in the process.

Russert asked her about an interview she had given to an editorial board in Nashua, New Hampshire, in which she was asked about New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer's
proposal to grant state driver's licenses to immigrants who are in the U.S. without legal permission.
Clinton: I did not say that it should be done, but I certainly recognize why Governor Spitzer is trying to do it. And we have failed

Sen. Chris Dodd:
Wait a minute. No, no, no. You said yes, you thought it made sense to do it.


Clinton:
No, I didn't, Chris. But the point is, what are we going to do with all these illegal immigrants who are (driving ?)
(inaudible)?
Actually, we checked the video, and Clinton did tell the Nashua Telegraph interviewers on Oct. 17 that Spitzer's plan "makes a lot of sense," despite her denial to Dodd.
Clinton (Nashua, N.H.): I know exactly what Governor Spitzer’s trying to do and it makes a lot of sense. He’s trying to get people out of the shadows.
During the debate, Clinton repeatedly said immigration should be dealt with nationally, not on a state-by-state basis. But after a long exchange she still hadn't answered the question to Russert's satisfaction:
Russert: Do you support [Spitzer's] plan?

Clinton:
You know, Tim, this is where everybody plays gotcha. It makes a lot of sense. What is the governor supposed to do? He is dealing with a serious problem. ...
Do I think this is the best thing for any governor to do? No. But do I understand the sense of real desperation, trying to get a handle on this? Remember, in New York we want to know who's in New York. We want people to come out of the shadows. He's making an honest effort to do it. We should have passed immigration reform.
We don't agree that asking a candidate for a specific stand on an issue is a "gotcha" question. In any event, Clinton avoided a direct answer.

Social Security

Throughout the debate Clinton resolutely avoided saying specifically what, if anything, she would do to shore up the finances of the Social Security system. She repeatedly called for "fiscal responsibility" and said she would appoint a bipartisan commission to study the system. And she made clear she was in no hurry to act:
Clinton: I think for us to act like Social Security is in crisis is a Republican trap.

In fact, the system is headed for nearly certain collapse unless some action is taken to increase taxes or at least slow down the projected rise of future benefits. And delay will only make the eventual corrections more painful, experts say.

clinton.debate.againThe system's trustees state that the program is financially adequate for the short term, but fails the test of financial adequacy by a "wide margin" in the long term. Within 10 years, under the most likely projection, payroll taxes will no longer be adequate to pay for current benefits and the system will begin cashing in the IOUs that make up its trust fund. That means it will be paying for a portion of benefits out of other federal taxes, and that portion will increase year to year. At that rate the trust fund will be exhausted in 2041, at which point the payroll tax could finance only 75 percent of promised benefits, and less in each succeeding year. At that point benefits would necessarily be cut 25 percent, or taxes would be increased.

To bring the system into balance for the next 75 years would require "an immediate increase of 16 percent in payroll tax revenues or an immediate reduction in benefits of 13 percent or some combination of the two," the trustees stated. That's  assuming the action is "immediate." Delaying action beyond this year will only make the needed changes more painful for future generations. The trustees said:

Social Security and Medicare Trustees (April 2007): To the extent that changes are delayed or phased in gradually, larger adjustments in scheduled benefits and revenues would be required that would be spread over fewer generations.

Nevertheless, at one point during the debate, Sen. Clinton seemed to imply that it was possible no action was needed at all, saying that "if" there are problems a commission should address them.

Clinton: If there are some of the long-term challenges that we need to address, let's do it in the context of having fiscal responsibility, and then let's put together a bipartisan commission and look at how we're going to deal with these long-term challenges.

Clinton Flip-Flops?

Sen. Barack Obama and former Sen. John Edwards accused Clinton of multiple flip-flops on trade, torture and Social Security:

Obama: And Senator Clinton in her campaign, I think, has been for NAFTA previously, now she's against it. She has taken one position on torture several months ago and then most recently has taken a different position.

Edwards: And then finally she said in our last debate that she was against any changes on Social Security benefits, retirement age or raising the cap on the Social Security tax.

  • NAFTA: Obama is partly right concerning the North American Free Trade Agreement. Clinton’s views on NAFTA have shifted, but they shifted prior toobama.clinton her official run for the White House. Back in 1998, in a keynote speech given at the Davos Economic Summit, Clinton praised business leaders for mounting “a very effective business effort in the U.S. on behalf of NAFTA,” adding later that “it is certainly clear that we have not by any means finished the job that has begun.” But by 2005 she was expressing reservations about free trade agreements, voting that year against the Central America Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA). And she told Bloomberg News in March 2007 that, while she still believes in free trade, she supports a freeze on new trade agreements – something she calls “a little time-out.”
  • Torture: Obama is right. In an interview with the New York Daily News in October 2006, Clinton condoned torture in what she called "improbable" ticking time bomb scenarios:
Clinton: In the event we were ever confronted with having to interrogate a detainee with knowledge of an imminent threat to millions of Americans, then the decision to depart from standard international practices must be made by the President, and the President must be held accountable. That very, very narrow exception within very, very limited circumstances is better than blasting a big hole in our entire law.
But in a debate in New Hampshire last month, Sen. Clinton shifted her position when moderator Tim Russert offered her just such a ticking time bomb case:
Russert: Senator Clinton, this is the number three man in al Qaeda. We know there's a bomb about to go off, and we have three days, and we know this guy knows where it is. Should there be a presidential exception to allow torture in that kind of situation?
Clinton: As a matter of policy it cannot be American policy, period.

To our ears, that sounds like a reversal.

  • Social Security: But in accusing Clinton of reversing course, Edwardsedwards.clinton mischaracterizes what she actually said during the September 26 debate at Dartmouth College. Moderator Tim Russert pressed Sen. Clinton on what, specifically, she was willing to “put on the table” to ensure the solvency of Social Security. Her reply:
Clinton: I'm not putting anything on the proverbial table until we move toward fiscal responsibility. I think it's a mistake to do that.
That’s not being "against any changes on Social Security" as Edwards claimed. Rather, Clinton simply refused to specify what changes she might be willing to accept.
Obama's Revised Remarks

Obama attempted to soften a previous accusation that Clinton was being less than truthful about a variety of issues.
Russert: But when asked by The New York Times whether Senator Clinton has been truthful, you said no.
obama Obama: What I said is that she has not been truthful and clear about this point that I just made [about Social Security], which is, we can talk about fiscal responsibility, and all of us agree with it. All of us oppose privatization. But even after we deal with those issues, we are still going to have an actuarial gap that has to be dealt with. It is not going to vanish.

Actually, the Times paraphrased Obama on October 28 as saying Clinton was being somewhat untruthful about "what she would do as president" generally, not just on Social Security:
New York Times: Asked if Mrs. Clinton had been fully truthful with voters about what she would do as president, Mr. Obama replied, "No."

"I don't think people know what her agenda exactly is," Mr. Obama added, citing Social Security, Iraq and Iran as issues on which she had not been entirely forthcoming.
"Now it's been very deft politically," he said. "But one of the
things that I firmly believe is that we've got to be clear with the
American people right now about the important choices that we're
going to need to make in order to get a mandate for change, not to
try to obfuscate and avoid being a target in the general election."
Russert’s characterization of Obama’s quote, as featured in the Times, was accurate. Obama, however, attempts to narrow the claim down to her position on Social Security when he really referred to her statements overall regarding what she would do as president.

Presidential Qualifications

Finally, we wondered about the accuracy of this statement from Sen. Joe Biden:
Biden: Rudy Giuliani [is] probably the most underqualified man since George
Bush to seek the presidency.
Biden is certainly entitled to state his opinion, and his line did get a lot of laughs and some applause. But a twice-elected former mayor of New York City is hardly without executive qualification. And does Biden really think Giuliani is less qualified than, say, cable TV comic Stephen Colbert, who is seeking signatures to qualify for the ballot in South Carolina?

Just asking.

– by Brooks Jackson, with Viveca Novak, Justin Bank, Jess Henig, Emi Kolawole, Joe Miller and Lori Robertson
 
Sources
Office of William Jefferson Clinton. Letter to the National Archives. Presidential Libraries. 6 Nov. 2002.

Landrigan, Kevin. Clinton says gender has been advantage. Video. 17 Oct. 2007. NHPrimary.com. 31 Oct. 2007.


Jensen, Kristin and Mark Drajem. "Clinton Breaks With Husband's Legacy on Nafta Pact, China Trade." Bloomberg News. 30 Mar. 2007. 31 Oct. 2007.

Smith, Ben. "McCain Team Mocks Hil Torture Loophole." New York Daily News. 16 Oct. 2006.

Nagourney, Adam and Jeff Zeleny. "Obama Promises a forceful stand against Clinton." The New York Times. 28 Oct. 2007: A1.

"Status of the Social Security and Medicare Program, A summary of the 2007 Annual Reports." Social Security and Medicare Boards of Trustees 23 Apr. 2007.
Posted in these Groups:
Topics: democratic debate, factcheck
posted by sagefever on Thursday, November 1, 2007 at 11:00 AM
Permalink - Comments [11] - Leave a Comment - Report a Violation
Viewed 54 times