If you read the article, you would have read that this has nothing to do with Obama.

Secondly, I have no gripes about anyone getting health care if they're paying $ into the system. The last paragraph summed it up nicely:

"Immigrants are part of our families, our communities, our economy, and contribute to the fabric of America," they wrote. "It is simply wrong that their taxes would pay for public health insurance programs to which they are not allowed access."

"LEGAL Immigrants are part of our families, our communities, our economy, and contribute to the fabric of America," they wrote. "It is simply wrong that their taxes would pay for public health insurance programs to which they are not allowed access.  Illegal immigrants contribute nothing to the economy, dont pay income taxes, work under the table, and mostly send their paycheck back to mexico.  1/3 of our current prision population is illegal immigrants, sucking an estimated 20 billion dollars a year just to house"

There Johnfrombakersfield.....I fixed it for you

now it doesnt seem like calling him a LIAR was too far off.   I wonder if he is still a  racist now that he has been proven right?

wow john boy..you must have been asleep for a few decades since the issue has been illegals 'dont pay taxes' so where do they get the right to continue to bleed our already failing system?   ..huge difference in green card carrying *legal* immigrants..

and if owe and his buddys grant them amnesty what signal does that send out to the many good folks that went to the trouble of jumping through our hoops to become a *legal* American as was setup by our *legal* system years ago.

heres a thought..why dont you and your family go to mexico and try to pull what they have been getting away with here for years..see how far you get and what the reprecussions are..

I totally couldn't agree more learnem! The government needs to stop making everything so easy for illegal immigrants.

Ever notice how libs ALWAYS try to turn this whole thing around by just using "immigrants" when we talk about ILLEGAL immigrants?  Nice way to try to take peoples eyes off the real ball.

If we say it really slow will pro-illegal libs get it?   . . . I - L - L - E - G - A - L - S.

We all knew this was going to happen one way or the other. The minute they stopped doing raids and Nancy Pelosi told the illegals that they were the patriots. When will they be able to vote?

Did you guys actually read the article? By some of the comments above, I'd guess no. 

"President Obama has said he does not want health care proposals to cover illegal immigrants. The bill drawn up by Sen. Max Baucus, Montana Democrat and chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, excludes illegal immigrants from his proposed health care exchange.

Mr. Honda and his allies, though, say illegal immigrants should be allowed to pay for insurance if they can afford it, even if it comes through a government-established exchange. As a generally young, healthy part of the population, illegal immigrants could help reduce overall costs for those who buy into health exchange plans, the lawmakers said."

PETE

quoting Obama is just going to come back and bite you.  look how much he has flip flopped from the time he started campaigning.  he says is for single payer, he then said he against....just one example.

What world is Honda living in??  How many young healthy illegals are going to spend their money on government health insurance?? Especially when it requires them to go to a government facility and register for it?/ This guys is so out of touch with reality..

Why even post an article for discussion if we're going to just make stuff up then?

How about  this...

I heard Obama wants all illegals to qualify for free boob jobs and/or veneers all paid for by republicans. I know it's true because he didn't say it, and we all know, if Obama doesn't say something, he means it.

Did you actually see me quote Obama learnem? Geez, didn't you even read my post? I put the whole thing in quotes because I copied it from the article.

As far as single payer, I'd bet he's still for it, but doesn't think it could be passed at this point. Geez, look how much grief he got from you guys just for suggesting that there be a public insurance program.

Yup.... Illegals are going to pay the government hundreds of dollars for government healthcare insurance and help reduce the overall cost of health insurance.  Now if we could just get them to aquire a FREE drivers license and get car insurance, we might see our car insurance premiums go down....

Seeing as though we would never call an immigrant who came here through legal channels, and jumped through the hoops so-to-speak, we would never call them an illegal alien. Lets just keep it simple by calling illegals what they are, ILLEGAL ALIENS! 

Thing is we know what Obama and crew are going to do. They will shove through comprehensive immigration reform. We know from Obama's speeches that he wants EVERYONE in the world to be one big happy family. To Hell with our laws. I agree with Joe, although it was inappropiate for him to scream it out while the ONE was speaking.

Pelosi tried to force Joe Wilson to apologize to the House for blurting out 'you lie' when Obama said illegals wouldn't be covered.  When Wilson refused, Pelosi led the House in 'sanctioning' him.  Now her peeps are planning to reward illegals with Obamacare.

When will Pelosi demand that the House apologize to Joe Wilson?  We're waiting. 

PETE SAID As far as single payer, I'd bet he's still for it, but doesn't think it could be passed at this point. Geez, look how much grief he got from you guys just for suggesting that there be a public insurance program.

this country swelled to the greatest in the world without it.  I believe it would only make this country worse, giving its citizens the belief that they can't do it on their own, and need to be covered by the governments protective umbrella

savvy, Are you expecting hell to freeze over soon?

learnem said,

"this country swelled to the greatest in the world without it."

We certainly don't have the greatest healthcare in the world. We do have the most expensive though.

You know, I think I figured out why you don't want universal health care. You'd have to go to the same doctors as the poor people that don't live behind any gates (bars on their windows maybe). That would probably really suck for you, even if it isn't true.

savvy, Are you expecting hell to freeze over soon?

savvy:  my 2 cents:  The way I get it, illegals who buy their insurance are entitled to it -- even if they are here illegally.  That is such a foreign concept that it could only have been dreamed up by this administration.  Please. 

What about the people -- presumably citizens -- who don't buy insurance and get penalized up to $5,000 for it, plus a jail term?  Do these lawbreakers get free health care in prison?  Hmmmm? 

Will the illegal aliens ALSO get a penalty and get sent to prison? 

Question:  why in the name of common sense don't we ship these people to wherever the H they came from?  It would be cheaper.  Invest in some land mines at the border.  That'd be cheaper, too. 

I am sick of this administration.  Could you tell?

Oh, and another thing.  Remember that when Wilson said "You lie" and everybody said it was because of racism?  No.  It wasn't racism.  I know precisely what Wilson or anybody else would have said in this instance if they were racists.  And it would NOT be "You lie." 

OK, I'll say it again, this isn't Obama's idea. He actually disagrees with the proposal. Please read the article people.

Pete:  is that today's disagreement or tomorrow's agreement?  With the flip-flopper-in-chief, one never knows. 

PP2: Why even post an article for discussion if we're going to just make stuff up then?

Previous posts,

PP2: Funny, I've never heard him say he wanted single payer healthcare. Maybe because he doesn't. Nice of you to make stuff up.

PP2: Sure he's for single payer. It makes the most sense if you want an efficient system. Just look at the other countries that have implemented it successfully.

That must be one of your favorite lines PP2 I see you use it when posts don't agree with you. I am sure I could have found more uses of everyone making stuff up but I'm awful busy. The second and third quote from you came from the same blog. No wonder you love Obama you can't keep your story straight either.

PP2: You know, I think I figured out why you don't want universal health care. You'd have to go to the same doctors as the poor people that don't live behind any gates (bars on their windows maybe). That would probably really suck for you, even if it isn't true.

I guess you are allowed to make stuff up to fit your view?

I see nobody here is interested in a discussion on this actual topic. Just more "gotcha" coming from the right.

PP2: You know, I think I figured out why you don't want universal health care. You'd have to go to the same doctors as the poor people that don't live behind any gates (bars on their windows maybe). That would probably really suck for you, even if it isn't true.

PP2 this has to do with the article? Why are you so worried about what others have or where they live and what they've accomplished?

You'd have to go to the same doctors as the poor people that don't live behind any gates (bars on their windows maybe). That would probably really suck for you, even if it isn't true.

HAHAHAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA  HA

right.....i live in a gated community?  i have no idea where you got that.  The doctors I see now ALSO do a little PRO BONO work and I already see the same doctors....thats why I picked them...they arent in it for the money, they are in it for societal reasons

and actually...it doesnt suck.....I get to brush up on my spanish......y usted pedro? como esta in espanol Pedro?  asi asi, bien, o muy malo?

had to go down the attack road huh PedroProgresivo?

I'm thinking the Dems are killing health care reform intentionally.  Supporting illegals access to gov. sponsored health care will [ or should ] be the death warrant for any bill .  Tax money will be used for health care benefits to illegals no matter if they contribute a token amount or not.  This will be another nail in the health care coffin.  I want to see private Insurance reform first.  The rush to get "anything" done tells me something is dishonest about the whole mess.

You might be on to something anglo1.  With the rush to force the 'stimulus' bill, without it ever being read, the American public is getting wise to these deceptive antics.  The House in DC acts just like the California legislature - without any respect for the taxpayers.       

PP2: I see nobody here is interested in a discussion on this actual topic. Just more "gotcha" coming from the right.

Priceless PP2 throws his jabs out and when someone jabs back he gets upset.

Not upset, just don't see the point of continuing this. Have a good one!

Seems the conservative base is avoiding the root problem when talking about the health care issue concerning illegal aliens.

The problem is: Neither the left or the right will do ANYTHING about the problem.

Doesn’t matter if the health care bill includes illegal aliens or not, as long as strong action is taken about the illegal alien problem. No health care needed if they’re not here in the first place.

Reagan gave them Amnesty in the late 80’s, so don’t expect the GOP to do anything about the problem. Big biz loves cheap and timid labor.

The Dems are too afraid of losing the Hispanic votes, so they won’t do anything.

Take care of the root problem first, then worry about health care and the budget.

DonMason,

Interesting point.  I'd add to the problem that neither side will risk the political fallout that would come from suggesting not providing health care to illegal immigrants as a way to deter illegal immigration.  Both sides benefit from the problem and do not want to risk either losing supporters (Dems) or being seen as soft on a heated issue (Rep.).   Health care will obviously be provided, even to those who have no insurance, as it is now.  I do think that asking if the illegal uninsured would be subjected to fines as legal unisured would be is a great step.  In my humble opinion, these are the types of things that need to be ironed out before a decision is made.

How would you suggest taking care of the problem?  I think higher fines on the businesses are an excellent idea, but what other solutions could you suggest?

Hi wndrwomen,

Extremely high fines on businesses hiring illegals would be a great first step, say $ 250,000 per violation,or even better, arrest the business owner.

Outlaw farm labor contractors, or fully extend liability to the final users of the labor.. Few existed before 1980. They are merely front organizations to shield farmers, meat packers, and factory owners from civil or criminal liability for hiring illegals.  

The main problem right now is no enforcement of existing laws. Many police officers are told to look the other way. Some don’t want to do the paperwork involved.

Any illegal alien discovered during a traffic stop or routine police action should be arrested immediately. 

Once arrested, means have to be in place for effective deportation. During Operation Wetback in the mid 1950’s, illegals were placed on passenger ships, and sent to south Mexico. Few returned, and the operation was very effective. President Eisenhower made it happen.

Same should be done with all illegal alien prisoners. Those from Central America just need a longer ship ride. Ample warning of the arrival could be given to the countries of origin. The cost is trivial compared to incarcerating them.

Pull Calif. Arizona, and Texas National Guard out of the Middle East, and place them on the borders. Their first priority is defending state national borders.

Individuals also need to take responsibility. My gardener is a W.A.S.P.  How many people with gardeners ask about legal status? How many use illegal alien housekeeping services?

Don’t do business with those who hire illegal alien labor. Half the houses built here since 1995 should say Made in Mexico for all intents and purposes. How many people actually know who the laborers were that built their house? Who's washing dishes at the restaurant where they eat? It wouldn't be long before "Harvested by Legal Labor" would be stamped on all produce at the store.

Should people choose to do these things, and if law enforcement and the courts would actually be aggressive about enforcement, the problem could be greatly diminished in just a few years.

I’m well aware of Anchor Babies and other complexities of the problem. However, Operation Wetback proved that many will leave on their own once steady and aggressive law enforcement action becomes the norm.

Hey morons, illegals contribute via the "fair tax" aka the sales tax.

John..are you deliberately trying to get deleted?

John starts out every one of his responses with 'morons'.  It's a good way to make friends - must be his exceptional people skill.

By the way, illegal means ILLEGAL = NOT LEGAL.

I'm not advocating that I have the solution, but I still believe that getting rid of illegals is at least an equal offset proposition (my higher lawn care cost will be offset by lower social cost from incarceration, education, health care and many other aspects).  We will never know how much of a drain the illegals are until we get rid of them and the econmoy adjusts.  Most importantly, we must have borders if we are to be a soverign nation.  Providing amnesty to the current illegals sends a terribly wrong message and providing healthcare to ILLEGAL just doesn't make any sense at all.  Like I said, station an INS agent at every insurance office and we'll solve this problem.

sooner, did you read the article? It says Dems are advocating LEGAL immigrants have access to pay for govt. health care. Are you against that?

You know, on second thought, you guys on the right are right. We should do nothing (just like for the last 50 years). After all, we do have the best health care in the world. The old folks love their Medicare, working people love Kaiser and Blue Cross, the un-insured love the ER, so what the hell, leave her alone. Saves us money and just shows that those damn liberals don't know anything.

whats the difference between legal immigrants and citizens?

quite a bit. what is wrong with them being allowed to buy health care?