Actually, Ron, if you -- yourself -- view the page ten times, it counts as ten views.  Kinda tells ya what a small world this is.  (Ugh.)

It doesn't bother me if we call them Christmas and Easter breaks, and I don't think most reasonable Jews and Muslims and others mind, either.  I grew up with the breaks being called Christmas and Easter, so I have my own sentimental attachment that would make me feel a little warm, cozy, and young.

The trouble is, I believe I know their reasons for wanting to change it.  They're taking something that isn't a big deal in most people's eyes -- we would be happy either way -- and making it into a big deal by its being one of the first things that the newly elected school board does.  And having seen and heard enough of what Chad Vegas has said elsewhere, it really is all about disrespecting other religions (and non-religion) by saying that their own religion deserves special, formal recognition and the others do not.  It's the motives, not the words "Christmas" and "Easter," that matter right now.

It concerns me that you (Ron) seem to be letting others do your thinking here.  You read the names of the critics, find some reason not to have to listen to them, and decide to go the opposite way.  That's basically letting other people do your thinking for you.

Look, I've learned over the months that underneath your fire-and-brimstone exterior is a heart the size of Montana.  Well, the people who think this is a bad decision were also once tiny, compact, yet miraculously complete little human lives that made sweet sounds in their mothers' arms and held their fingers with those soft little baby hands.

And all the while, I'm sure you would have defended with all of your strength their right to be recognized as living, breathing human beings.

Do they no longer count for anything now, now that they've adopted a few opinions that you don't agree with?

If you honestly think this through, and still decide that changing the names of the breaks is the right thing to do, I'll respect that.

But if you do, what some others do, make up your mind on issues simply because you don't like the people with another opinion, and act as if they just don't count for anything, that's one of the quickest patks to a world in which human life is valued less than your wildest nightmares.

What I find funny is that I grew up with Christmas and Easter breaks.  They they decided that just wouldn't do so they changed them to Winter and Spring Breaks (great for the college students to not feel guilty) and now they want to change them back to Christmas and Easter Breaks.  EGADS...just what is the purpose?  If you can change them willy nilly to suit a few when the wind blows then how much meaning do the names have anyway?  Just leave them alone..we know what the breaks are for.

I wonder if "they" just feel the need to justify their jobs.

 2 Rabbi's (jewish) United Medthodist, Mark Medthodist ( these churches are dividing over Gay's and Women Pastor's)

Mulism (should I say any more) 2 Catholic's(which is no surpise, they are for illegals)

A Professor @ CSUB(like we really need another ACLU teacher)<<

Most professors have more intelligence than any ten Christians combined (I know, I know, intelligence won't get someone into "heaven." Neither will ignorance). One of the biggest problems with the church today is that everyone is trying to prove that their particular brand of Christianity is better than the next guy's. Whack-job Pentecostals who engage in hilarious jabbering ("tongues") and "laying on of hands" (which has not, nor will it ever, heal anyone) provide more comedy relief than anything else.

Just because something is traditional doesn't mean it's constitutional. Prayer and Bible reading had been in Maryland's public schools since 1837 until Abington v. Schempp and Murray v. Curlett (1963) freed schoolchildren nationwide from that nonsense. You'll always find someone who claims that "life in America went downhill after that," as if forced recitation of prayer actually accomplished anything. Young people were becoming wild long before (look up the name Charles Starkweather), and drugs were certainly in society ("The Man With the Golden Arm," and "A Hatful of Rain" were two 50s movies about drug addiction) long before Justices Clark, Black, et al handed down their wonderful ruling. 

I'd rather live next door to some guy who sashays around in lavender pants than some nut who goes all day around claiming "The lord is doing a work in my life!" Wishful thinking, at best.

Johnburnssucks wrote, "Prayer and Bible reading had been in Maryland's public schools since 1837 until Abington v. Schempp and Murray v. Curlett (1963) freed schoolchildren nationwide from that nonsense. You'll always find someone who claims that "life in America went downhill after that," as if forced recitation of prayer actually accomplished anything. "

It's worth pointing out that most of the freedom-loving youth who attended the original Woodstock grew up with prayer in school.  I say, bring back school prayer!!!  ;-)

Less facetiously, it's worth pointing out how silly it is to expect empty recitation to accomplish much of anything.  Kids say the Pledge of Allegiance every day, yet we are still a very divisible nation, in which liberty and justice still have a few fair-sized gaps that fall short of existing "for all."

(Of course it's that very impotence of empty recitation that makes me look upon the "under God" controversy as a tempest in a teapot, but that's another subject.)

Vegas may have given up on the Intelligent Design concept because of his lack of scientific education. It's one thing to believe in a deity, it's another to distort science to fit into your own beliefs. He once said on Igna Barks show that species cannot interbreed. When I took them both to task on that one, by giving them examples of interspecies breeding, they both blatantly denied the fact that a lion and a tiger are NOT the same species. Inga's reply was that they are both cats. At least admit when you are wrong if you want anyone to take you seriously. Even horses and zebras can mate, and they don't even have the usual requirement of having the same number of chromosomes.

Christmas break? I don't care what they name it personally, and I'm pretty sure even the Christian kids who get two weeks off don't particularly worry about it either.

Im even okay with Intelligent design in the classroom. But it does not belong in the science class, unless it is sociology or anthropology. These sciences DO study cultural religion. And the Intelligent Design class should not focus on one particular view. The Hindu religion should get just as much class time as Christianity.

Ron wrote, "France, Germany, Spain, Italy and almost England, were built on the Catholic church of sand. Most of the new Americans no matter what you people call them, were leaving Europe to flee the Church. The people here didnt want a Gov. ran church like the one they fled from. "

Well, if you don't want a government-run church (and I agree that's a very bad idea), then it's best to avoid voting for Republicans in most districts these days.  They (the Republicans that I refer to) love government-run religion, the whole works.  They want government to decide which religions are OK.  Heck, they even want government to define sacred rites like marriage for them.  :-)

In the meantime, I get the feeling we'll be on the same team for a little while here on this blog.

The Pantichrist is back in town.  ;-)

>>I remember the days if a neighbor saw me doing something bad, he would bust my butt or take me home to my parents.<<

I remember those days! My mom claimed that she "had spies everywhere" that would catch me doing anything I wasn't supposed to be doing. I'm 48 now, and she still insists she had those spies (all the while smiling when she says it).

Sorry Ron, but your statement that "All the wars before Viet Nam and Korea had Muslims or Catholics behind it" is a little bit of a broad statement don't you think? Yes, both have a storied violent history, but there are plenty of other wars that went on with participants who knew nothing of a Judeo Christian god. In fact, you can bet there are tribal scuffles going on right now in Micronesia, or the Amazon, who don't know who Jehovah is, much less Jesus. And Catholics did not have a lock on Christian violence, they are just the most organized. (Think Italian Mafia). Henry the 8th created a church just so he could off his wives and remarry. Protestants have a storied history of violence too. There aren't that many Protestant countries in Europe, the hotbed of imperialism and colonialism, so the Catholics do win the organized war mode of Christianity.

Alexander the Great cared little about Jehovah, Ghengis Khan, the Aztecs (pre Spanish rape), B.C Rome, B.C. Greece, North American Indians, Chinese dynasties, Japanese warlords, etc etc etc. They had no clue who Jesus is. (On a side note for  Christians, there is a book called 'God's Chinese son' about a Jesus cult in China that is interesting.)

Your context assumes that everyone who ever lived believed in a Judeo/Christian god. However, you are correct  in that Christianity and Islam were the religions of the most traveled and modern societies in the last 2 millennia, they have cost millions of lives in the name of a deity, even though greed was the real reason for the war, and religion had very little to do with it.

Killing in the name of Jesus is about as anti-Jesus as you can get. Ghandi was much closer to the Christian model than 85% of the Popes in history.

Tens of Millions have died under God's banner, whether he is Jehovah, Zeus, or Odin,  with the murderers caring little about religion and more about power and wealth.

Well, at least a few people are convinced that I'll still be there.

S'Ok.

Hardliner I don't think you lost anything by losing Ron. No big loss there.

As far as the "controversy" goes, over winter break vs. Christmas break, why don't we just be accurate, for once? Winter break is a more apt name for the two weeks off. The federally-recognized Christmas holiday is one day (which is all I get off from work). It's not two weeks. Therefore it's not truly a Christmas break. It encompasses New Year's Day, as well, does it not? It would be as accurate to call it New Year's break. Winter break is a more accurate description. Unless we decide to give schoolkids only one day off...not a bad idea, at that.

Same for Easter break...spring break is a more correct description. There are school systems that don't take their spring break which include Easter, which, by definition, is a Sunday anyway, and not a holiday for most of us. (We already get that day off.) Maybe they should call it Good Friday break, instead....as that's the day off from work most of us get.

I see Jacquie Sullivan of "In God We Trust" fame spoke in favor of it. Whoopty-do...the more accurate motto, slogan, expression would be "In God Many Trust" or "In God Most Trust." Her inclusive "We" doesn't speak for me, thank you very much.

Vegas and Mettler are pushing an agenda that is ridiculous on its face but insidious underneath. I'm sure it will (not) make all the difference in the world to call it Christmas break as opposed to winter break. It's still two weeks off for staff and kids. Doesn't really matter what you call it.  Hell, call it what you want...can we move on to something important?

Chad and Ken (sounds like a '50s singing duo, doesn't it?), you got what you wanted. Now let's work on improving our educational system.

No, Murphy.  I believe Chad was Ken's boyfriend after Barbie ditched him a few years back for GI Joe.

.

(OK, I know it's wasn't nice...but did the spam filter HAVE to spell out "EIVIL" for this post?)

Ron,

When we are all called up to heaven and the rest of these guys are left sitting there scratching their heads wondering why their good deeds left them here, then they will look for the truth and have to live until the Lord returns again to take everyone home. Those who are ready to hear the word their hearts are open and ready to receive. So keep on sharing as some will be ready to hear the word.

As far as all who signed that letter, most were women and here is what the bible says about women ministers;

1 Timothy 2:11-12 proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” In the church, God assigns different roles to men and women. This is a result of the way mankind was created (1 Timothy 2:13) and the way in which sin entered the world (2 Timothy 2:14). God, through the Apostle Paul’s writing, restricts women from serving in roles of spiritual teaching authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors, which definitely includes preaching to, teaching, and having spiritual authority over men.

I actually don't see what the big deal is with all of this anyways, Jesus was not born on Christmas day, it was just a day the pagens had for a holiday and when the Roman empire accepted Christianity and declared everyone had to be Christian they deceided to keep the holiday to make the people happy. Shepards tended their flocks most likely in the spring which is probably when Jesus was born. BUT what difference does it make when he was born anyways? It is just a day for us to remember that Jesus was sent here to be born so he could die for us so we could return to heaven because as humans we are all fallen and couldn't do it on our own. It is a great way to start the New Year remembering that.

Merry Christmas and happy new year

Well Red, I guess we need to add one more commandment and make it eleven.

"Thou shall not be born in Borneo, or you will suffer eternal damnation".  That doesn't even rise to the level of humanity, much less an all powerful God.

I guess no matter how moral, we'll have to give these sinners the PC name of "Geographically handicapped". What part of Hell do they put these people? Maybe the comandment should read, "Thou shall pick thy parents more judiciously".

So I'll have to say, Jesus doesn't have much Christmas spirit if He is such an egomaniac, and I don't think He is. That describes someone like Terrell Owens lambasting some kid from a farm in China for not knowing who the hell he is. Your God doesn't play for the Cowboys does he?

At any rate, your convictions are your own, and it does seem that you are only trying to 'save" people... so...have a Merry Christmas!

So it sounds to me like we agree that without "hearing" of Jesus, you can still make it to heaven if you've led a moral life.

Ron, you're not really telling me to worry about my own soul, while you prostelisize to everyone on the board are you?  I think it's noble of you to try to 'save' souls, but when you don't like the debate you're going to imply that only you should worry about the rest of humanity?

Jesus was about inclusion, not exclusion. Who do you think has a better chance at heaven, Pat Robertson or Mahatma Ghandi? Mr. Ghandi surely knew about Jesus. In fact, he was quoted as saying that Christianity would do better if Christians actually followed the teachings of Jesus, rather than argue about what he said.

 Ben Franklin said it best: "I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day we shall not be examined on what we thought, but what we did." - Benjamin Franklin letter to his father, 1738

Merry Christmas to all moral men, whether they be Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, atheist, or any more of a multitude of religous or humatistic beliefs, who actually walk the walk.

The atheists started the movement to get Christmas and Easter vacations changed to Spring Break and Winter Vacation, since they don't believe in God.

It's amazing how one lousy atheist, Madelinne Murray O'hare could start the movement to get rid of Christmas and Easter holidays in our schools.  I found it ridiculous, because our public schools still put on Christmas pageants, had Christmas parties, made gifts for their parents and had nice little parties for easter.  Both holidays were based on Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, not so much Jesus, so I think the school district let them do this.

Personally, I know parents who would take their kids who were Jehovah Witnesses out of school on those days.  They never complained, they just kept their kid home from school since their religion doesn't allow parties and gifts. 

Now, we have to celebrate all of Black History Month in Feb., Cinco de Mayo on May 5 and these aren't religious holidays, but since I don't celebrate either, it's also my right to keep my kids out of school on those holidays.

My one complaint is that if we had White History Month, we would be racists.  I'm not sure why we have black history month, the blacks were part of our history and they are studied like any other culture, i.e. the native Indians, in our history books, yet our Native Indians don't get Native-American Month (and this country was theirs' before anyone discovered America).

God bless America, I love Jesus and I love my country for allowing me to view my opinions and follow any religion I choose without persecution.

The atheists started the movement to get Christmas and Easter vacations changed to Spring Break and Winter Vacation, since they don't believe in God.

And, here, folks...we have an example of revisionist history.  This is not an accurate statement AT ALL.  DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

There was actually no such thing as "Christmas Break" or "Easter Break" until the 1930s, and even then it was generally limited to the one day before and after Christmas and the Monday after Easter IF THAT. Not every state took off a day for Easter, since EASTER IS ON A SUNDAY!  Historically, in some states, fledgling public schools systems gave the children of farmers a week off near the end of March for SPRING PLANTING.  The US's educational calendar is based on an agrarian cycle.  

The "Christmas Break" notion was expanded (in length) and emphasized (in handouts, calendars, media, and literature) because of the fear that NOT referring to the break as "Christmas Break" would be communist.  Once again, a fear of Communism led to an over-zealous crusade to label everything with a Christian Sharpee.  Atheists DID NOT advocate to have the names changed at all.   In reality, most states bowed to other religious lobbies and, in a stunning moment of clarity, decided that using Christians holidays to label breaks in the education year might actually offend those of other religions.  Atheists had nothing to do with the decision.

It's amazing how one lousy atheist, Madelinne Murray O'hare could start the movement to get rid of Christmas and Easter holidays in our schools. 

Wrong again.  The Christian right started an internet petition claiming that MMO was trying to get Christmas songs, shows, and references pulled from television, radio, and schools.  A petition was started and circulated.  The FCC later did an investigation and found that the claims against MMO were unfounded and that the petition was a hoax.   In fact, the claims made - FALSELY- about her were made one year after her death (she was MURDERED, btw).  She might be good, but I hardly think she was good enough to wage a war on Christmas and Easter post mortem.  The only thing that Madalyn Murray O'Hair (emphasis on correct spelling of her name) did was act as one of the litigants in a case, in 1963, Murray vs. Curlett, to ban ORGANIZED PUBLIC PRAYER IN SCHOOL.