Many of us would have welcomed a peacetime call from a recruiter to our parents asking if we were "interested".

Instead, what we got was a notice, first to show up for a physical exam and then to report to Fort Ord, CA.

And we knew where that meant most of us were going.

Kids today are spoiled. Hell, their parents are spoiled. Even some of their grandparents.

Americans are going to have to undergo some massive turmoil in order to "get real".

Until then they will nibble around the fringes of a socialistic agenda perhaps even going whole hog into it under HRC (due primarily to their public school indoctrination) but at some point the reconing will come........

............ and come it will........ I fear for our kid's kids and even more for their kids. .... They will face a world suffering, not from environmental damage as those that will get us there would have you believe, but from the very socialistic systems they will have put in place.

Like climate change, it is all cyclical. And only one really knows this...........

When I turned 18, about the time I registered to vote, I got a card in the mail that said that I was eligible. I was in College at the time.

I was working two and three part-time jobs and going to school full-time. It was one hell-of-a-life. One morning I woke up after my usual three hours of sleep, looked in the mirror and told myself that something had to change, or I'd die from this life.

I graduated from B.C. a month and a half later and went to the recruiters office all by myself. A few days later, the recruiter drove me to Fresno, to the MEPS station and I enlisted into the U.S. Navy. It was one of the best things I ever did.

Four years in the Navy (as an Avionics Technician and U.S. Navy Rescue Swimmer) did me a lot of good. Yes, I know what it's like to be shot at (Beirut and Gulf if Sydra). Yes, I know what it's like to risk life and limb to save a Soul, sometimes to succeed, sometimes to fail (That's something that I have to live with).

Those experiences grew me into a Man. They have a lot to do with the way that I think today............................................ .

The military was good for me. I know that. I was flat crazy.

I was going to join plumbers union, marry my current girl friend. Who knows? My kids would even be oleder <haha> and I'm sure there would be quite a few things different.

But I learned a lot in the Army. Primarily though, I just got older. Grew up. Came back to the world, used GI Bill, got an engineering degree and later on an MBA and moved into the work force as a "white collar" employee. Ha!

I was so blue collar that even my white collar'd shirts turned azules esse!

But I learned a lot working for multi-nationals and govt.

I wouldn't trade  my military experience for anything in the world. Not even one of the kids or their kids.

ChicoEsquela,

I'm right there with you. If I hadn't joined the Navy, who knows.............. Right now, I'd probably be fitting pipe or finishing concrete. I was very blue collar also.

Same thing, I'd have married my current girlfriend and my kids would be older. My kids are in their early teens, but I have a few friends the same age who have grandkids now. Although we married young (21 and 22), we waited to have kids until I was out of the Navy and we were on our feet.

My colleagues at work could be my kids. I tell them that I'm older than they think I am. I've told a couple of them my age and they can't believe it.

When I was in high school it didn't really bother me to receive a phone call by a recruiter.  I could just tell him I was not interested and if they were pushy or rude I could just hang up on them.  What use to annoy me was when I was pulled out of class to have to meet with a recruiter.  I swore I would hear the recruiter say "What can I do today to sell you into the Marines."  This kind of aggressive recruiting always made me avoid any recruiter on campus, even today when I am in college.

You are lucky to look young! And you got through engineering school which is tough! Its with no great pleasure that no one asks me for my "senior card" anymore! :-) 

And I'm certainly not denigrating blue collar work (and I know you are not either)

If you've had a plumber come over recently, you know they make more per hour than many white collar people. And I think that we have "funneled" too many (esp minorities) into college as though that is the only way to fame and fortune. Its not!

Oh, and another difference. I didn't marry my girlfriend at the time. I still think about her though! OK, stop that!

I'm somewhat older than you, so all I'm saying there is that I would probably have great grandkids now instead of waiting for the first one (coming soon). haha!

But yes, where we are rock solid the same --> military service was good for us. I don't like the draft simply because we had so many sh*theads in VN that were drafted (hell I was one too) that didn't want to be there......... and people like one of my brothers just shouldn't see combat -- in any form. It was bad for him. I don't think he ever got over it. Its funny how kids react to things -- two of us when Dad beat us up just got "tough" and he withdrew into himself. He did that in Vn even moreso.

Anyway, the service was good for a lot of us. I still think its better like Tony did and volunteer (he must be a better swimmer than Patrick Duffy - haha! ) but  that is fuel for argument hereon.

I don't like the draft (like Charlie Rangel) but I think military service is good for young men (women too in certain MOS's)

Uh ohhhh......... now I'm in for it....... I don't think women should be infantrymen...... OK ...... just shoot me!

Roy

Seriously. I have known two Submariners in my life really well. Worked with one and went to college with another.

It seriously takes a special person (don't get embarrassed on me now) to do that. The little tiny space for your "stuff" and person, the close quarters, and just being under the water like that knowing if something F's up you will go to Davy Jone's Locker esse!

Wow!

I think some of us would rather carry a rifle into combat!

And the ASW crapola that goes on........games with Ruskies......... ping'ing.......... etc.........

Two submariners I knew. One in college who stole my girlfriend (You snooze you lose) and one who I worked with who was so far above the rest of us when computers first came into vogue in engineering circles we all hated him (he is very rich now by Intel BTW)......

But the key is (and we've discussed this over many beers -- both of em many years apart ) the ability to be under all that H2O and carry on as normal. For months at a time! NOw that is some sh*t folks........

I guess there is all kinds of  "courage" esse!

One morning an Attorney was getting ready for Court when his bathroom sink clogged while he was shaving. He called a Plumber to come right over and fix his sink, so that he could ready himself for his Court appearance.

After about 15 minutes of work, the plumber had finished and handed him a bill for $125. The Attorney, after a brief moment, exclaimed "Oh My God! that's $ 500 dollars an hour! Christ, I'm an Attorney and I don't make $500 an hour!" The Plumber, while wiping off his tools and grinning said "when I was an Attorney, I didn't make $500 an hour either".

Honestly though,

I've got a really good friend who's an XO on a nuke sub right now. He'll retire in a year or two and he's several years younger than me.

Boosheet

I don't believe you Roy

There's no way you didn't know

And 25% and steaks? NO way! Still not worth it to most!

I just don't buy it.

TINS

The worst thing about being in the military (so be careful young men thinking of same) is listeining to your wife for years and years hence saying:

"You make a bed like that (or many of various myriad complaints women have about our hygene or other "housekeeping" hapbits) ........ well how in the hell did you ever make it in the military? You mean your Sgt didn't teach you better than that?"

Man!

Thats the toughest part of it! 

Bottom line:

There is NOTHING your son or daughter (or grandkids) can do with their time that beats being in the military for a few years.

NOTHING!

One of my brothers Sage. He is a musician. Can play anything he picks up. Listen to something, play it.

VN was bad for him. I saw some old VFW dudes collecting money this morning. Funny you mention this........ because normally I would donate some cash......... I didn't this time.......

They were older dudes....... maybe Korea? maybe even the "big" one? They were pretty long in the tooth. Coulda been in their 80's. Anyway I remembered how they treated that brother of mine who came back from being wonded in combat in VN and was a little wireded out. He went one time to VFW. Told me about the talk of "baby killers", etc. and I couldn't believe it. Hippies, yeah but at the VFW? Said they treated VN vets like crap. Late 60's.... So I didn't donate. Stupid, I know.

Then I got to thinkin'...... I never really had much trouble "fitting in" from VN. I went to college, played football. Never said much about the war. Guys like my brother became like professional victims. Its like they had a sign on their chest that said "I'm a victim from VN, you owe me!" No one wants to hear or see that!

I just hope we NEVER treat our guys coming back from Iraq that way. I've picked up a lot of tabs in restaurants, etc. when people in uniform are still eating as I leave. I just walk out. Its not much though....................

I shoulda gave them old farts something......................

When we die I think we will be judged by some of the really good things we did. For no reason other than it was the right thing to do. And no one was a watching us!  (well almost no one)

That brother of mine never ran around with face paint but he did take a lot of it out on his oldest boy. I knew it was going on. One day I just up and went up to where they live and asked to see they boy. He was in HS football, lifting weights and was really becoming a "stud". I asked him what he wanted out of life (we are sitting in his little room in their little hovel with his only furniture a bed and a bench press) and he looked up at me and said "El Tio, I just want to kick Dad's A$$! I was taken aback but pressed on.

I took out a couple of blue medal cases that his Daddy had tossed aside years earlier (I saved them). I handed those blue vinyl hard cases one at a time to him, he opened them and kinda went pale. One was a Purple Heart and the other a Bronze Star.

He almost broke down. I was choked up but managed to tell him his Dad was a true hero. He drug several guys to safety in a fire fight and that was after he had been wounded. Miguel looked at me, said nothing, shook my hand "Thanks Tio"

Next thing I knew he had graduated HS, turned down a football scholarship, and was at Camp Pendelton. Then years later Desert Storm I. Then this current one (twice now).

I am so proud of him I cannot (yeah I know) come up with the words. I'm planning a big fishin' trip for his Daddy, one of my boys, and Miguel. I feel like Miguelito was at a crossroads and I put him back together with his Daddy.

I wish someone would have done that between my Dad and me. Too late now.

Now I need to take the advice of a very wise poster on here and try and call one of my other brothers........ one who didn't go to VN........ didn't do nothin' except quit talkin' to me decades ago....................

Because I put him down for being a "hippy" and a "Momma's Boy". Then Momma died and he wrote me off.............

God.......Was I stupid or what?

Oh, we finally forgave the boy for becoming a Jarhead .....

Took awhile though........... 

One of my very best Friends on this planet stayed in the Army when we got back "to the world".

He was like your brother Roy, except not nearly as high ranking ("only" got to SFC).

He was always airborne but went back to Ft Benning and devoted himself totally to the art & artifices of warfare. He then ended up going to every "op" that came up, from "Just Cause" (Panama) to Somalia. He is absolutely the most clear concise thinking individual I know.

Don't tell me that warriors aren't  intellectual -- this guy is as dialed in to the "paradigm of essences around which the world continually approximates" as anyone I know.  

He is wealthy now. Owns several high level security firms. But he never forgot where he came from. Every once in awhile I will get something in the mail from him and it will blow me away. From an Ecuadorian Oriente "Indian" blow gun to a Who's Who in SOG Book (some "interesting" names in there to us) to a tribal elder blessed horse blanket that sat astride his fathers appaloosa for a decade......... He's just that kinda guy. 

He's the one who told me I shoulda killed Ben Rapphoun BTW (previously mentioned Lakota Sioux at FB Schueller).

He was in many of the countries I happened to be, just for different reasons. I was private business and he was govt business.

Almost ran across him in Yemmen once. Missed him by only hours. I had a cigar for him I had to mail to him later! It dried out and I’m sure he laughed at it! Elitist !

But he never had a son. My "reluctant warrior" brother did. He became almost the warrior my friend is. So who knows? From each according to his talents. To each according to how much he wants to work and sacrifice! (my interpretation of Marx -- not Harpo)    

Always remember (and its one thing I respect them for as a branch) every Marine is a Rifleman first and foremost.

No matter what his MOS, he's a rifleman first.

So Diesel mechanic by day, but if the fecal matter makes contact with the circular bladed air moving device, he will be carrying that rifle!

He'll do fine BTW! I can tell! 

Bakonewbie, although I can sympathize with you concerning your brother, joining the military means joining the military.  If people want vocational training without risk they need to go to a trade school and not the military.  If they want college without risk they need to go to college and pay for it.

I don't mean to sound cold but think what military means.  It's comprised of soldiers.  They don't all go to war or into a war zone, but if called, it's what they signed up for.  Regardless of what the recruiter tells them, as Chico said, if it comes down to it, they will need those rifles.

For those parents who want to "opt-out" on behalf of their kids, there's a link to the form *HERE*:

http://www.militaryfreescho...

However, it appears that it's two days past some sort of deadline.  Hmmm...wonder how carefully the article was timed.

.

Wouldn't hurt to try it anyway, I guess.  Military recruiters did a brief by-mail buzzing of my daughter, but she was too smart to fall for their lines. 

she takes after her Daddy, eh?

I'm not sure for girls, but for guys I think a few years in the military can be the best thing that ever happened to ya.......

and I meant bein' too smart BTW

Now don't you feel bad for thinking what you were thinking I meant by that?

I know exactly one person to whom I would recommend a stint in the military right now.  Don't like him much--a thoroughly complete waste of epidermis who wouldn't go anyway unless they dragged him.  As a second career choice I'd recommend him as an organ donor, except for the drug use. 

.

My daughter does indeed take after her daddy, I am extremely proud to say.  

.

There can indeed be benefits for a hitch in the military during a time when such service is valued by the C-in-C.  The past six years are not such a time.   They've been treated like toy soldiers by a thoroughly spoiled child.

One thing we don't need in our fine military are wastes of epidermis.

When people used to say "send those criminals to Vietnam........ let 'em fight"

That is so disingenuous if not downright stupid. Criminals don't make good soldiers. Thats why they are criminals. And they're aren't even to good at  that given they are in jail.

The first fire fight and the real criminals would be looking for the nearest exit.

Thats why they are criminals

(and I'm not talkin' about "wayward boys like I was" -- you said this kid was a waste of skin esse -- I took you at your word)

The kid has absolutely no consideration for anyone but himself--and that goes for his girlfriend and new baby.  He has been coddled all his life by his (conservative Republican, not liberal) parent(s).  He is ignorant and determined to remain so, lazy and determined to remain so.

.

Of course, he could still grow up to be President, but unfortunately his daddy didn't pave the way for that.

And his consideration for no one but himself is precisely why he would make a lousy sojer esse

The one thing you do learn is there is no "I" in team

(of course then what about MEAT?)

But I digresse esse

There is a reason why we vets are so close. To this very day. I have one bud I know would be on his Harley and be here in as long as it takes to go thousand miles on it to help me if I needed it. Another that would be in his charter jet. Makes no difference their lot in life. They just would.

Thats what its all about vato.

What is his relation to you BTW?

Sage

I have to address this. Its important!

In most cases inmates make lousy workers. Thats why they are in Jail (and not Yale)

CA has a CDF program where very sifted inmates are utilized to fight fires. They even utilize them around this area.

It is a very selective, highly controlled group of inmates. They are a rare breed among inmates in the CDC system and have espirit de corps like you would see in the crotch (Marines) or SF (Army).

They  are not your run of the mill inmate. Not by a long shot. So don't confuse them. P L E A S E !

And I am assuming that was a while ago Roy. You would be amazed at how the program has evolved to date.

I have had occasion to see what they do and have some old buddies that are involved in it even now (some are younger than me by a ways).

Title 15 precludes the widespread usage of work crews anymore I am told. With overcrowding all they have left are hardcore sh*theads and gangstuhs. But the CDF program is one that really does work!

You were there in its formative stages, now they have taken it to another level. You should go visit the barraks they have them in sometime.

(I am assuming you are around my age -- I may be in error on that -- if so you may be aware of what they are currently like)

Yes, you can be justly proud of what you helped create.

One of the most effective and successful programs the CDC ever came up with.

(CDF has a lot to do with it too no doubt)

Nancy

Bourne Supremacy is on 17 right now!

Sorry, wandered off for a while, sum.  Nephew-in-law. 

.

I have friends I'd make that kind of effort for.  One is a disabled Vietnam vet.  I don't have a chartered jet, but my little four-banger is at his service.  If we're not here for each other, what the heck *ARE* we here for?