So the women-hating, anti-gay Christians silenced their opponents.  Through the use of force. 

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So much for freedom. 

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Of course, they could've done what Bush does--keep anyone with a hint of a differing opinion behind police lines two blocks away.

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So much for freedom.

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To answer the question posed:  no, we shouldn't trust God in the political process. He seems to back some real idiots. 

Had, Pete.  Had.

http://www.dailykos.com/sto...

Don't forget that it was Tony Snow, the Fox News anchor turned White House Press Secretary, who first publicly described the Religious Right as the American Taliban:

"Pointed to a destination called "Nowhere"

http://www.jewishworldrevie...

"The Taliban Republicans take a darker view of human nature. They consider the rest of us a bunch of potential dupes and regard society as a stew of corrupting influences. They look upon government as the ultimate street cleaner and see nothing untoward in declaring the moral equivalent of martial law: Jail the sinners, elevate the saints, establish the rule of the righteous, and do it all before the next sunrise."

It's interesting that the Jewish World Review main page no longer links to Tony Snow's columns.

Having read the actual Californian article, it's interesting that the Christian musician Carman was there.

As a former born-again myself, I used to like Carman until it began dawning on me that he was a full-bore religious militant who wants to see a full-blown religious dictatorship in the United States.  He wants to turn America into fundamentalist Christianity's answer to Iran.  This was in 1992, when I began realizing that many of my Christian "personalities" were truly seeking a crushing theocracy -- something that I strongly disagreed with even as a Christian.

His presence at this rally is very, VERY telling.

Having said that, for the protesters to run on stage and interrupt was the wrong way to go about it, and put egg on the faces of freedom-lovers like myself.  (But then again, I can empathize with their desperation -- since there are almost no pro-freedom voices to be found in the media.)

Hey Mocus, welcome back.

"...tossed out like yesterday's fishheads..."

The guy does have a way with words at times, hee hee.

I don't ever remember Mocus actually claiming to be a Christian.  I think he's just sticking up for the Religious Right because he lets the liberal left do his thinking for him.  If the liberal left criticizes something, he feels obligated to defend it.

Mucos1, hitler was not a pagan you jack wad!  You probably don't even know what a pagan is.  You probably think pagan stands for People Against Goodness And Normality...

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Stop watching dragnet and do a little reading, would you please?

Hitler was *NOT* a pagan.  He may have been an incestuous slime, a dictator, the murderer of millions, but he was a *CHRISTIAN* incestuous slime dictator, murdering millions in his own words because "I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's Work." 

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Pete, didn't you get the message?  They're cancelling Christmas this year.

Mucus, they are laughable--many of them are basing their decisions on badly-translated versions of a three-thousand-year-old book.  But they've taken over *MY* government.  Witness Bush's witless stance on embryonic stem cells.

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The great thing about the Internet, Mucus, is that if anyone wants to know what "basically these liberals are saying," all they have to do is *READ* what these liberals are saying.  Which is that in just five short years the morons in charge have set our country back sixty years at least, that they have not been right about *ANYTHING,* and the country may not recover.

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I don't care if deeply religious people participate in government.  I care deeply if they try to make government itself follow their mythology.

Mocus

Of course you can participate in politics in America.   So can the protestors who unfurled the sign. 

FYI .........The "freedom from religious based government " movement  is starting to grow in this country, so prepare yourself for more protests in the future.  NO MORE free rides for the wacko religious right.

Take a good hard look at the Bush administration to see the results of having a man's personal religious beliefs  guide policy.

BTW......Someone should offer to donate some brain cells to Jacquie Sullivan to go with the one she already has.

Mocos, because it demonstrably does not work to invade, occupy, and try to impose "democracy" on other countries when we can barely apply it here.    That's why I don't support it.  It.  Don't.  Work.

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Yes, I do "think Bush is bad," and so do about 65 percent of the people in *THIS* country, let alone the widows, cripples and bereaved parents in Iraq.

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That's *NEVER* been what it's all about in Iraq, or Lebanon for that matter.  It's about oil, and water.

Stem Cell Research

The right for same sex couples to marry.

Erik, you certainly might face the reversed situation.  Christians who object to the demonstrators' crashing their little soiree would generally find no contradiction in busting up a gay-rights rally.  Fairness applies only to their point of view, not to others.

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I do not support protesters disrupting a meeting--but I do support their right to be heard, and their right to present a countering view.  God bless those protesters.*

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*(I mean, in a secular way, being as how He doesn't really exist...)

If our nation can survive the interim turbulence, the Bush Administation / Religious Right government could be the best thing to happen to us.

MyLefteFoot is right.  There is a growing, really toughened-up opposition to the Religious Right in this country that didn't exist 12 years ago when people like myself were sounding the early warnings.  Twelve years is enough time for literally half a generation to turn voting age thinking "hey, this isn't right, this isn't what America is all about."

Even some congressional Republicans are finally descending some testicles and breaking ranks with this -- a phenomenon unheard of a decade ago.  Witness the resulting hatred for Arlen Specter from the far right.

Here's a sign of hope:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006...

Anny, about a third of the country takes Mocos seriously.  The same third that sways elections unless we work hard enough. 

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If I were to believe in a God, I'd say She is teaching us all what happens when Democrats don't work hard enough at politics.  And I'd say many elected Democratic leaders haven't yet gotten Her message.

I really do wish Jacquie Sullivan had been confronted at the time with some alternatives. How about "In God Some Trust," or, "In God Many Trust." That way, those would be indeed statements of fact, rather than using the all-inclusive "We." Those of us who don't bother to waste time believing in mythology could at least stomach the statement.

And Mocus1 needs to come out from behind his curtain and just sign his name as Jaz McKay, since he writes exactly the way the ill-informed talk show host speaks on KGOP. Errrr...KNZR. No, I had it right the first time.

Well, Tyler, we can have a relationship with Jesus without the government's Big Stick.

A commitment to Christ based entirely on free choice is the kind of commitment that Christ would expect, don't you think?

Tyler, the country was started by white males who owned slaves.  If you want to say that we started with Christianity--which is wrong, by the way--you've got to take the whole ball of wax.  Just why do you think that only white male slave-owners should get a say? 

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By the way, Washington didn't say that.  http://www.religioustoleran...

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I don't give a happy rat's ass if Christians "hate" homosexuals, or more likely secretly envy them.  AS LONG AS THEY AGREE THAT GAYS MUST BE TREATED EQUALLY.   

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You're sadly mis-educated about freedom (not surprising, most people are.)  This country was explicitly set up as a secular state, free of the influence of particular organized religions on the working of government.  It says so in the Constitution.

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If you are sorry that some Christians are acting like terrorists, then use your influence within your church to see it condemned.

Anon

How about this

"In god we trust"  BUT   "Elect  a democrat"

Mocus1 isn't exactly what I'd call a name, either, and I note there's no link to show your profile. So, while I use the name 'anonymous,' what's the problem? Alexander Hamilton and others wrote under pseudonyms. I have no problem with you hiding your identity, either, which is what you do.

More troubling to me is not your lack of identity, but the fact--there's that word again--that you refuse to debate anything with facts, reasoning or logic. Your argumentative style is simply one of name-calling and bashing anyone who disagrees with you. Sad...and no way to win an argument. Do you realize how stupid you really do appear?

It seems that a large portion of this discussion is based on our inability to teach/learn that we should teach and show tolerance as apposed to acceptance.  It also is strange that I find myself aligning closer to ericbako that any others.  While we come from somewhat opposing sides in general, I am a strong Christian, he reflects best what I’m talking about.  Both sides are guilty; just because I may believe that you are wrong, does not mean we cannot talk, live and get along.  I may try to save you every now and then, just like you will probably try to tell me what kind of fool I am; but both sides are based on a degree of faith in one thing or another.  We all think we’re right but that does not give any of us the right to dictate to the other.  Unfortunately, that’s what BOTH sides try to do.  Telling a Christian that they cannot worship or pray in school etc. is no different than banning homosexual couples from attending prom.  We all need to practice tolerance; my God told me not to judge but to spread the news and lead by example.  I do not fear that your beliefs will stain me, I’m above that.  I can tolerate what I see as foolish and misguided beliefs without accepting them.  This would work well for all of us, regardless of our core values or beliefs. 

That's a very admirable sentiment, Anny, but I am curious about something.

Why is it soooooo important to have prayer in public school?  The best I can figure is that Christians are trying to settle an old score with Madalyn Murray O'Hair from 44 years ago.  If prayer in school is really that important, I should hope we can find a better reason to restore it.

BTW, many major Christian demnominations at the time felt that the Supreme Court did the right thing when it held that school-sponsored prayer was unconstitutional.

Sage, you've hit the bulls-eye.  The only people who want to see "In God We Trust" plastered on official buildings and coins are the ones so shaky in their faith that *ONLY* government support can sustain them.

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Kind of like my bewilderment that anyone could worship a God so weak and powerless that a school district's policy determines whether or not he's allowed to enter a school building.  But again, it's a sign of weakness that they need to have the school do their religious indoctrination for them.  And noname, Tricky's dirty tricks were nothing compared to Rove's, and you're correct tocite the Right's intimidation tactics against family-planning clinics, up to and including murder.

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But *MAYBE* the tide is turning.  Looks like South Dakota's insane ban on abortion and the FDA's jihad against Plan B may be crumbling simultaneously:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEA...

Tyler, the problems lie with the people who are claiming to represent the "Christian voice" in this country.  Most non-Christians know that most Christians are not the "problem."  Maybe you can help fix the problem that does exist.

The problem is that when people think of "God and the political process," it has come to mean they want to use the State to force people to follow the rules of your religion, and they want the State to publicly show favoritism to your religion while dissing all the rest.  (Then, there is a special hatred reserved for Pagans and Atheists.)

The Christian media have done little to correct this misperception.  Christian radio will never, ever allow a voice that suggests that church and state should be separate.  They will never allow a voice that suggests that the Republican Party is not the best fit for the Christian faith.

As I see it, if they really followed the Christian faith, there would be no problems like this.  The New Testament tells the church, in so very many places, to live peaceably with the unbelieving world.  Nothing in the Bible, Old or New Testaments, suggests transforming the people outside the church by force.  Yet this is exactly what people such as the Christian musician Carman would like to do -- force people into living as they believe -- exactly as does the Taliban.

If you feel that freedom is a good thing and a Biblical teaching, you can help in a couple ways -- by showing us that Christians like yourself don't approve of this religious political militancy, and by reproving those Christians who do condone such unscriptural tactics.