Rumsfeld Solicited Torture Advice From Army Psychologists, Ignored Lawyers' Objections

A Senate Armed Services Committee investigation revealed that former Defense Secretary Don Rumsfeld and senior aides in the Pentagon asked military psychologists as early as July 2002 to provide a list of harsh methods interrogators might employ against detainees held at Guantanamo Bay. The psychologists, who train Army troops how to survive enemy interrogations, responded with a list of techniques including sensory deprivation, sleep disruption, stress positions, waterboarding and slapping. Despite immediate objections from military lawyers who questioned the legality of using the proposed techniques without further review, Rumsfeld ordered interrogators to use the methods on detainees at Gauntanamo anyway.

The Committee's investigation also revealed that the Defense Department strategically hid prisoners who were subjected to the harsher techniques from Red Cross personnel monitoring detention centers to ensure compliance with the Geneva Convention rules for treatment of prisoners of war. According to secret memos from 2002 when the harsh methods were first employed at Guantanamo, Pentagon attorney Lt. Col. Diane Beaver advised interrogators to "curb the harsher operations" while the Red Cross monitors were around, and said in a private meeting that interrogators' use of the techniques "is not being reported officially. The [Red Cross] is a serious concern. They will be in and out, scrutinizing our operations, unless they are displeased and decide to protest and leave. This would draw a lot of negative attention."

Beaver's comments were recorded in the minutes of an October 2002 meeting between CIA and military lawyers and intelligence officials who discussed how to hide "ghost detainees" from the Red Cross at military detention centers.

Another attendee at the meeting, senior CIA lawyer John Fredman, explained that whether harsh interrogation amount to torture "is a matter of perception." Fredman said, "If the detainees dies you're doing it wrong."

Armed Services Committee chair Sen. Carl Levin commented, "Were these actions the result of 'a few bad apples' acting on their own? It would be a lot easier to accept if it were. But that's not the case. The truth is that senior officials in the United States government sought information on aggressive techniques, twisted the law to create the appearance of their legality, and authorized their use against detainees."

http://www.huffingtonpost.c...

so timec.....instead of pulling the race card...why don't you ATTEMPT to help the hispanic community???  or do you expect the taxpayers to pick that up too???

hmmmm...my dad spanked me when i did something wrong...my mom took my things away from me.........it was PURE racism

CLUE UP TIMEC

I love you too Catherine!

A B****?  *you're Black, Catherine?* 

Timec,

I LOVE you because you're a b****!  LOL

Takes one to know one, I guess.  : )

Timec      wife always says I joke to HARD     even when I said they always look for the black box after a crash   another joke

Ron

I don't get it .......Ron

Timec: i would'nt hate you if you were a bi**h.      cause I don't know what that is        bi------ something

Ron

OB

They just might...None of the names listed are white crips.....I know if they came across a white gang member they would arrest them by mistake.....b/s

I don't live in a hate whitey world. I work daily with good people that are white. I have white friends, relatives, and neighbors. I was raised not to hate...I dislike peoples ways.

I know you are white and I don't hate you. I actually think you are a pretty cool person...because you talk a lot of sh**..... kind of like me.

If anyone hates me I don't want them to hate me because I am black..... hate me because I am a bi**h.

timec, I recall you pointing out to me a while back that there are some white and hispanic members in some of the "black" street gangs. If the police come across them and they are committing a crime, or violating probation/parole, do you really think the police will ignore them and only focus on the blacks? 

It must be sad to live in your miserable "hate whitey" world.  

Timec:

There is an old saying after an airplane crash    they come after the black box 1st

Ron

My blinders are off Ling. I may be some dumb but I ain't plum dumb...I know that blacks commit crimes. I also know that everyone else does too.

That is what you are not understanding...They do have orders to go out and arrest BLACK gang members only. I read the list. It is all crips and bloods.....

Well, I'm sure that whatever race is out there committing crimes will one day be caught and punished...but you gotta understand ~Timec~ that it's not ALL blacks that are being caught....I'm sure that law enforcement doesn't have standing orders to pick up 'Blacks Only'....come on now, take off the blinders and see the full picture.....

Chico

Most of the young black men can't even go because they are locked up or they are felons......But they are fighting a whole different battle. I am making this about race because our DA has made it about race....

I am not going to live my life believing we are equal to everyone else and I know that is a damn lie.

Timec -- If all you have is a hammer, every problem becomes a nail.....

If you make everything about ethnicity (or race) then, orale chingone......

http://www.commondreams.org... 

Chico

I will be happy when they get all of them.....ALL...Once again ALL............

http://www.bakersfield.com/...

Here are the 2007 Homicides.....

Out of 53 murders.....Blacks are responsible for less than 10...It is obvious who Ed Jagels should be targeting. You guys are all in denial.....Sad

Timec -- will you be  "happy" when the focus  moves to McF and Delano?

It won't be on just blacks then, trust me........

(orale! Somehow I suspect you still will not be  "happy".....)

http://www.bakersfieldcity....

I have attached Bakersfield's Most Wanted.....all blacks...yeah right! Let's find these dudes first....Doesn't that make more sense????

LING

Please name a black gang member that killed an old lady here in Bakersfield....I can name a Hispanic gang member.

Yer right ~Timec~ Black gangs shots police officers..not lil' old ladies--( yea,right)

 OB

You might have to ask one of those groups. I am going to join the NAACP and then I will be a complaining organization.....

Mexican (MS13) gangs are more dangerous than the black gangs. OB you know this is true. Black gangs kill black gang members. Black gangs don't kill innocent little old ladies.....

That is just one of the reasons this will never go away.  If there were white gangs in my neighborhood I would never take up for them or tell the cops to get over to Lakeview and bust the black or mexican gangs because they [the cops] were racist pigs for picking on our poor white boys.  Arrest the ones that are most likely to hurt innocents first.  My wife told me about 15 years ago that the gangs in the U.S. are going to be a bigger threat than the Muslims { this was after the first World Trade Center attack}.

Will do. I'll tell him to mention it in the next job description.

Don't know, Babe--you'll have to ask a gang member. : )

Haha. Very true. But let's face it. There are people who volunteer in the soup kitchens and what not but get "profiled" by the cops. Furthermore, there are people who carry guns, assault people, and sell drugs without any gang affiliation. So the assumption is that gang members are criminals (not vice verse)? So if a gang member has not yet committed a crime does that leave him in the "wannabe" status?

Yep.  But let's face it, Jfrancais, how many gang members you know spend their time volunteering in soup kitchens?  To be a gang member you HAVE to carry a gun, you HAVE to assault somebody, you HAVE to sell drugs--it's the job description.

So then it's perfectly legal to be a gang member? It's just illegal to be a gang member and commit a crime?

PC 186.22 is a charge that means a crime was committed in the furtherance of gang activity.  So, if someone is arrested for, say, felon in possession of a firearm or something like that, PC 186.22 is attached if they were involved in gang activity at the time.  Also, the DA can determine if the crime committed was gang activity, and they can also attach PC 186.22 (gang enhancement.)  It's just like another felony charge. 

If it's illegal to be in a gang then why don't they just arrest everone in the hood who might be on the corner throwing up gang signs or openly admits to being affiliated with a gang? I skimmed over PC 186.22 and it mentions of punishment for "gang related crimes" and registering as a gang member upon conviction.

Ok. My bad. What is a criminal street gang under the CA penal code?

Oh come on JF, you can't be serious. Have you never heard of the California Penal codes that address criminal street gangs? Take a look at PC 186.22.

And timec, why are there no community groups crying out against white, hispanic, asian, etc., gang violence? Even the black community leaders and ministers are tired of the gangsters. It's the black street gangs who are committing all the drive-bys, murders, and holding peaceful neighborhoods hostage. I'm NOT saying other races don't commit crimes, because we all know they do. But this is addressing a particular problem. If you think otherwise, you are choosing to just ignore it.

I rather they just put the people behind bars who have committed crimes. Last I checked, it wasn't illegal to be in a gang. One of the arguments (of many) is that in the quest to rid the streets of gangs, some people who happen to be the same color/race/ethnicity/neighborhood as those targeted gangsters get caught up in the implementation of "new policy".

I don't care what color they are either.....BUT........Taking black gang bangers off the streets is not going to change a damn thing.

Target all not just the black ones. Crip and Bloods make up a small percentage of our problem.

I don't care what color you are...if you commit a violent crime or belong to a gang that is known for their violence, I want them off of the streets.  I can't believe any of you are arguing over color when it involves stopping the violence.  

I for one am thankful that the authorities are trying to clean up the streets and put these gangbangers behind bars - no matter what color they are!

Al these years I thought it was 'odaley'...

 HEY! THERE ARE CHOLO CHICKENS TOO! DON'T FRONT! ORALE'!

They may be guilty but the white guy that committed the same crime should have the same amount of time.

Come on Ling.... Let's keep this 100. You know what I am talking about.

And let me quess...they are all innocent...they didn't do nothing wrong AND they are in prison for crimes they didn't commit...right?

 Ling

This is not a thing of the past. This is happening right now. When I speak about certain issues I am not talking about me.....I am speaking of We. Blacks are being killed be cops, blacks are being beat because they are black, black men are being sent to prison are a much higher rate than whites, blacks are being singled out by our LE, and on and on. What news channel are you watching..I see it on the news all of the time.

But you don't see this type of treatment no longer on the 6 o'clock news......we learn from our mistakes and move on...but there are those that want everything now, and I really wish it worked that way but it doesn't---everything thats time....heck,I'm not crying that Mexico lost the war against the United States...who cares...time to move on....

Ancestors? You make it sound like these atrocities happened in the Paleozoic Age. My mother lived in the 50's and 60's. My grandmothers lived through Jim Crow and was raised by a former slave. Heck, MLK was killed 10 years before I was born. We, as a society, have made substantial progress but it is still not that far removed.

~Timec~...Why is it ALWAYS a black and white thing with you....just think if you grew up during the 50's-60's and was getting hit with clubs and high pressure water hoses was turned loose on you...not to mention the police dogs that would take your flesh from your bones....but you didn't...but your ansesters did...and WE"VE come along way since then....

You should stop thinking about ME,ME,ME and start thinking about WE,WE,WE.....or this way of thinking cycle will never stop....

Allred

As a Christian Allred you should ask them can I talk to you for a minute. Pray with them. Pray for them. They just may need your help.

Timec I haven't checked out your stats    all I have seen is different color up here walking with their hands on their crouch and pants butts down to their ankles

I also went to my two g/daughters graduation this year for Highland  High   they said this was the 1st year they had less graduates ever

Allred

We live in America you can say what you please....but I don't have to like it. You are in desperate need of a spiritual cleansing. I actually feel for you. God judges his saved sinners much harder than non saved sinners....you better be careful. You are playing with fire..literally.

Back to the issue.

http://www.mhaks.com/files/...

I have attached the Section 8 housing stats. You need to read before you talk sir. There are more whites on Section 8 than blacks. Face it slackers come in a colors. White is not always right Allred.

Sorry Blue     Am  I     hope thats better

So Timec    Am'I wrong for bringing this up      one can't speak the truth

Are your people above the LAW    they sure act that way     well from what I've seen

My favorite program     COPS      not one     I wish I could say more than one    but not one with blacks in it  has the mother, brother sister or the other section 8 people living close by admit the person was wrong I would  include the father but of course he is never around 

Ron

The same thing applies to Leon   two guns one found and the other will show up on the next killing

So that i'm not completely one sided I will give the blacks credit for not writing their name all over the place  like the Mex's   seems like a water hydrant to the Mex  they have to leave a mark

I'm sure us whitee's have bad behavior and you'll let me know

Lin

He named  27 gangsters..that is more than a few. His list consists of all blacks.

I wish we were all on race.

El

That is not reverse racism that is just disrespect. Kids are disrespectful. Kids are rude.....that has nothing to do with color. 

Catherine

For every racist story against blacks there is not a racist story against whites/Hispanics. Trust me. For every cop beat down against  blacks is there a cop beat down story against whites...I think not. We are the most hated race in the US....why...I saw a study on the most hated races. After 911 blacks were still in the lead.....pretty dad huh?

 All red

No comment ...because you are just a racist old guy. You can't help yourself. Blacks are just wrong to you period...and you are a Christian...that floors me.

Frankie, that would fall under the heading of "bigotry." Many American-born Latinos don't like "Nacos," and vice versa (which was never more evident than when De La Hoya fought J.C. Chavez several years ago). The English don't like anyone; they don't like the Irish, Scots, etc. An English soldier in Hong Kong told my dad that "An Australian is nothing more than an Englishman with his brains stomped out." No one likes the English, either.

I'm sure Ed J is reacting to the good people of the communities where the targeted gang members collateral damage is making their lives virtually unlivable.

I'm just as certain he will target the rest of them without regard to race, creed, or color (not just blue or red)