http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453 The Big West of California refinery is located in the heart of a growing metropolitan area. Some say this is reason enough to deny the facility's expansion plans. Many argue that if the refinery wants to expand, it should do it somewhere else. Refinery officials say the cost to build a brand new refinery is way too high to be realistic. Industry trends support their claim. No new refinery has been built in the United States in nearly three decades. If existing refineries can't expand, supporters of the project ask, how will the demand for gas and diesel continue to be met? The county planning commission that approved thousands of new homes around the refinery in recent decades will decide if the facility can expand. What do you think? Can an expansion be done in a way that doesn't diminish the safety and quality of life for its neighbors?             The Big West of California refinery is located in the heart of a growing metropolitan area. Some say this is reason enough to deny the facility's expansion plans. Many argue that if the refinery wants to expand, it should do it somewhere else. Refinery officials say the cost to build a brand new refinery is way too high to be realistic. Industry trends support their claim. No new refinery has been built in the United States in nearly three decades. If existing refineries can't expand, supporters of the project ask, how will the demand for gas and diesel continue to be met? The county planning commission that approved thousands of new homes around the refinery in recent decades will decide if the facility can expand. What do you think? Can an expansion be done in a way that doesn't diminish the safety and quality of life for its neighbors?             en-us Perhaps these people should have thought twice before buying a house next to a refinery. It's called foresight. I have been looking at homes to buy and I was looking in the Harvest Creek area. Then I found out that the proposed hiway 58 project will run right next to that area. Thus, I am no longer looking in that area (which is sad because many people (banks) are trying to sell there now). http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197127 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197127 Perhaps these people should have thought twice before buying a house next to a refinery. It's called foresight. I have been looking at homes to buy and I was looking in the Harvest Creek area. Then I found out that the proposed hiway 58 project will run right next to that area. Thus, I am no longer looking in that area (which is sad because many people (banks) are trying to sell there now). http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197149 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197149   Stacey, When is someone going to report on the Leborde Ranch trial and bankruptcy? http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197151 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197151   Stacey, When is someone going to report on the Leborde Ranch trial and bankruptcy? Yup, don't buy across from a refinery and then whine when it expands. On the other hand, city planners should allow enough buffer around it, or at least offer the refinery the option of putting dibs on some land for future expansion when they do planning. I too am looking at buying a home soon, and I too am looking very carefully at city maps, future route plans, locations of refineries, open land that may become something you don't want to live next to, sewerage treatment plans, recharge basins, the works. It is good old common sense - never hurt anybody unless they don't have it. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197182 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197182 Yup, don't buy across from a refinery and then whine when it expands. On the other hand, city planners should allow enough buffer around it, or at least offer the refinery the option of putting dibs on some land for future expansion when they do planning. I too am looking at buying a home soon, and I too am looking very carefully at city maps, future route plans, locations of refineries, open land that may become something you don't want to live next to, sewerage treatment plans, recharge basins, the works. It is good old common sense - never hurt anybody unless they don't have it. Here is what irks my a** - A refinery has been there for years... and years.... then some folks from LA move up here and spend some God awful amount for some McMansion in West Oildale that is clearly around the refinery (I don't think anyone was hiding it before they moved in) and then they bitch and moan about the refinery...HELLO !! http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197236 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197236 Here is what irks my a** - A refinery has been there for years... and years.... then some folks from LA move up here and spend some God awful amount for some McMansion in West Oildale that is clearly around the refinery (I don't think anyone was hiding it before they moved in) and then they bitch and moan about the refinery...HELLO !! I've got no problem with expansion if they keep the pollution levels the same or lower.  Anyone know the last time this plant upgraded? http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197240 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197240 I've got no problem with expansion if they keep the pollution levels the same or lower.  Anyone know the last time this plant upgraded? Tom, I think they (Texaco-Shell) did a major overhaul to the refinery back in 98 or 99. I know some folks who work for TIC who were involved. I may be wrong about the specific year, but it was around that time frame. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197249 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197249 Tom, I think they (Texaco-Shell) did a major overhaul to the refinery back in 98 or 99. I know some folks who work for TIC who were involved. I may be wrong about the specific year, but it was around that time frame. My mantra.  NIMBY Idjits. Excuse me while I go fill up my gas tank, replace the oil in my car, drive on the asphalt, and do a hundred other things that are based on petroleum.  Just don't let that icky old refinery expand. Idjits http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197250 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197250 My mantra.  NIMBY Idjits. Excuse me while I go fill up my gas tank, replace the oil in my car, drive on the asphalt, and do a hundred other things that are based on petroleum.  Just don't let that icky old refinery expand. Idjits Yes!!!  Let's keep burning more and more crude.  Climate change is God's will.  If water becomes short we can sit in the shade of our Hummers.  Down with NIMBIES.  Anarchy rules. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197286 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197286 Yes!!!  Let's keep burning more and more crude.  Climate change is God's will.  If water becomes short we can sit in the shade of our Hummers.  Down with NIMBIES.  Anarchy rules. instead of trying to expand the refinery to meet the peoples demand for gas how about investing some money into an alternative...oil is nonrenewable how bout instead of sucking the earth dry try a new fuel or a new kind of car that won't screw up earth or our health. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197553 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197553 instead of trying to expand the refinery to meet the peoples demand for gas how about investing some money into an alternative...oil is nonrenewable how bout instead of sucking the earth dry try a new fuel or a new kind of car that won't screw up earth or our health. I'm with Nan! just bought some more stock trailers! someone's gotta pay for upcoming Obama Nanny State! will work until increasingly welcome dirt nap! http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197558 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197558 I'm with Nan! just bought some more stock trailers! someone's gotta pay for upcoming Obama Nanny State! will work until increasingly welcome dirt nap!   Justin, How are you going to pay to haul those stock trailers around at a buck a lbs on the hoof for your heifer? http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197561 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197561   Justin, How are you going to pay to haul those stock trailers around at a buck a lbs on the hoof for your heifer? bril koz! with good grass=high prices, I get more biz again your business acumen is showing! http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197585 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197585 bril koz! with good grass=high prices, I get more biz again your business acumen is showing!   Justin, Don't care what you say about good grass. Brown grass. Is about as nourishing as a tooth pick. You better truck off your heifer real quick. You have about 3 months of green grass. Then you start cutting feed or buying it. If you don't fatten up your heifer. At a 1.04 a pound on the hoof. (this mornings futures price). You won't pay for her vaccinations. Let alone your stock trailer. Best of luck. And don't load your heifer with a fork lift. You may scratch your stock trailer. And resale value for that stock trailer is going to be your best asset. If someone doesn't do something about fuel prices. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197589 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_197589   Justin, Don't care what you say about good grass. Brown grass. Is about as nourishing as a tooth pick. You better truck off your heifer real quick. You have about 3 months of green grass. Then you start cutting feed or buying it. If you don't fatten up your heifer. At a 1.04 a pound on the hoof. (this mornings futures price). You won't pay for her vaccinations. Let alone your stock trailer. Best of luck. And don't load your heifer with a fork lift. You may scratch your stock trailer. And resale value for that stock trailer is going to be your best asset. If someone doesn't do something about fuel prices. Yet another example of crappy planning.  Remember when the refinery was clean out to Rosedale?  Of course you don't.  You didn't live here.  Now the houses that accommodate you and those like you that came here to enjoy our town want to change things.  What a crazy, mixed up mess.  Welcome to town. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_198210 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_198210 Yet another example of crappy planning.  Remember when the refinery was clean out to Rosedale?  Of course you don't.  You didn't live here.  Now the houses that accommodate you and those like you that came here to enjoy our town want to change things.  What a crazy, mixed up mess.  Welcome to town. I worked at that refinery from 1998 - 2003 under names Texaco, Equilon, and Shell.  Some plain and simple facts.  That refinery ALWAYS made money.  In my 5 year tenure working there, I heard of at least three different plans other than Shells to shut it down and the refinery proved too profitable of an asset to shut down.  In that timeframe, several other refineries have been shut down, or have been compromised in some other way (e.g. Katrina).  To all those opposing its expansion, I honestly don't want to hear you whining about gas prices at the pump.  Sure, the price of crude weighs into that, but so does the supply of Gasoline and Diesel.  Moreso, in fact, at the pump does this factor weigh in.  I've lived in Bakersfield most of my life, and that refinery has been there long before I was born.  That area is zoned industrial for a reason.  I really have no sympathy for those who knowingly moved near a 80 some-odd year old refinery.  I have heard from people who still work there under Big West that they are very strict to maintenance and turnarounds on-schedule.  Moreso than previous owners.  So, we have Flying J who has invested millions into that refinery since purchasing it, making it more safe for the environment, the community and the husbands and wifes of hundreds of this community that work there. I believe that their plans for expansion will be conducted with the same amount of care in regards to the community and the environment. As for the video with that County Envrionmental dept. worker talking about Hydrochloric Acid, that is on the very far extremest end of the spectum.  Thats like taking the risks of something like bleach and the effects on the body when its injested..  Hydrochloric acid is the largest proponent in gastric acid; the acid contained in everyones stomach.  Its not some new and unheard of chemical.  Hydrochloric Acid is used in MANY different industrial environments.  Yes, in high concentrations, it can be dangerous if mishandled.  Thats why there are things like EPA guidelines, MSDS (Material Data Safety Sheets) and several other facets in place to protect the workers and the environment.  There is billions being invested into alternative fuels -- unfortunately, not supporting this expansion doesn't do anything for alternative fuels one way or another.  Rather, it adversely affects our job market and local economy directly, and it does nothing to help the supply of california gasoline, which must maintain higher standards than any other state.  Yes, Alternative fuels are the final answer, they have to be, but nothing positive is accomplished by uninformed prejudice against this expansion.   my .02 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_200723 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_200723 I worked at that refinery from 1998 - 2003 under names Texaco, Equilon, and Shell.  Some plain and simple facts.  That refinery ALWAYS made money.  In my 5 year tenure working there, I heard of at least three different plans other than Shells to shut it down and the refinery proved too profitable of an asset to shut down.  In that timeframe, several other refineries have been shut down, or have been compromised in some other way (e.g. Katrina).  To all those opposing its expansion, I honestly don't want to hear you whining about gas prices at the pump.  Sure, the price of crude weighs into that, but so does the supply of Gasoline and Diesel.  Moreso, in fact, at the pump does this factor weigh in.  I've lived in Bakersfield most of my life, and that refinery has been there long before I was born.  That area is zoned industrial for a reason.  I really have no sympathy for those who knowingly moved near a 80 some-odd year old refinery.  I have heard from people who still work there under Big West that they are very strict to maintenance and turnarounds on-schedule.  Moreso than previous owners.  So, we have Flying J who has invested millions into that refinery since purchasing it, making it more safe for the environment, the community and the husbands and wifes of hundreds of this community that work there. I believe that their plans for expansion will be conducted with the same amount of care in regards to the community and the environment. As for the video with that County Envrionmental dept. worker talking about Hydrochloric Acid, that is on the very far extremest end of the spectum.  Thats like taking the risks of something like bleach and the effects on the body when its injested..  Hydrochloric acid is the largest proponent in gastric acid; the acid contained in everyones stomach.  Its not some new and unheard of chemical.  Hydrochloric Acid is used in MANY different industrial environments.  Yes, in high concentrations, it can be dangerous if mishandled.  Thats why there are things like EPA guidelines, MSDS (Material Data Safety Sheets) and several other facets in place to protect the workers and the environment.  There is billions being invested into alternative fuels -- unfortunately, not supporting this expansion doesn't do anything for alternative fuels one way or another.  Rather, it adversely affects our job market and local economy directly, and it does nothing to help the supply of california gasoline, which must maintain higher standards than any other state.  Yes, Alternative fuels are the final answer, they have to be, but nothing positive is accomplished by uninformed prejudice against this expansion.   my .02 Ok, here we go again. The last time it was a bunch of out of towners protesting the building of the Federal Court House in the Southwest. A bunch of lies, sponsorship by a realtor then the project was halted and Bakesfield got stuck with waiting for a Federal Court House  again. Who was protected but the white colar criminals. Who spent the money to stop the Court House? A realtor and a few paniced citizens. Who go rich? The developer and the nut case who bought a house in the Seven Oaks area so she could justify her panic claims. One month after teh court house deal was scrubbed she sold her home for a profit. Who is really in charge this time and what do they have to prove? Is it LA or Long Beach who will loose business from Bakersfield oil producers if the refinery does get to improve the site using a cheaper and more reliable chemical which by the way produces  a cleaner fuel than the alternative chemicals  claimed to be safer. Someone protesting needs to take a chemistry class and learn a little more about the cracking process and how strong teh chemical will actually be when used in the refining process.. It has been pointed out that the planners,builders and developers selected the area around Big West to build the homes they sold for a sinful profit. I wonder how many of them are engaged in the protest. Take a good look at the video on this site and notice how far away from the production site Discovery Elementary School is and who's childern go to the school. In any  other state this could qualify for conspiracy ofr racketeering since this is the second time in recent history the same general area has become a hot bed for concern. Robert Craig III USN Retired http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_235125 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_235125 Ok, here we go again. The last time it was a bunch of out of towners protesting the building of the Federal Court House in the Southwest. A bunch of lies, sponsorship by a realtor then the project was halted and Bakesfield got stuck with waiting for a Federal Court House  again. Who was protected but the white colar criminals. Who spent the money to stop the Court House? A realtor and a few paniced citizens. Who go rich? The developer and the nut case who bought a house in the Seven Oaks area so she could justify her panic claims. One month after teh court house deal was scrubbed she sold her home for a profit. Who is really in charge this time and what do they have to prove? Is it LA or Long Beach who will loose business from Bakersfield oil producers if the refinery does get to improve the site using a cheaper and more reliable chemical which by the way produces  a cleaner fuel than the alternative chemicals  claimed to be safer. Someone protesting needs to take a chemistry class and learn a little more about the cracking process and how strong teh chemical will actually be when used in the refining process.. It has been pointed out that the planners,builders and developers selected the area around Big West to build the homes they sold for a sinful profit. I wonder how many of them are engaged in the protest. Take a good look at the video on this site and notice how far away from the production site Discovery Elementary School is and who's childern go to the school. In any  other state this could qualify for conspiracy ofr racketeering since this is the second time in recent history the same general area has become a hot bed for concern. Robert Craig III USN Retired Last month I attended an informational meeting about the refinery expansion.  While the information was from the refinery and the company supplying the technology to build the new equipment,  it seemed to be honest and they seem to be willing to use the latest technology and safety measures to ensure the new expansion protects the environment and the surrounding community.  The refinery has been there for a lot of years and the city has grown up around it.  If all of the safety measures and procedures that are proposed are put into place when the new equipment is built, then I suppose that most of us might actually benefit from a larger gasoline supply and more revenue pumped into the economy. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_265753 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_265753 Last month I attended an informational meeting about the refinery expansion.  While the information was from the refinery and the company supplying the technology to build the new equipment,  it seemed to be honest and they seem to be willing to use the latest technology and safety measures to ensure the new expansion protects the environment and the surrounding community.  The refinery has been there for a lot of years and the city has grown up around it.  If all of the safety measures and procedures that are proposed are put into place when the new equipment is built, then I suppose that most of us might actually benefit from a larger gasoline supply and more revenue pumped into the economy.  Though I have much more to learn with regard to this issue it seems that the Clean Fuels Project is going to be a great idea. It will bring millions of dollars in the local economy because of the constrution activities. They are going to produce additional gallons of gasoline and deisel fuel-enough to supply all of Kern County! That sounds great to me! Not only that, but they have assured us that they will do their part to help out the environment along the way. It seems like a great project, well worth it to me! =) http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_268020 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TheDirt/21453/#c_268020  Though I have much more to learn with regard to this issue it seems that the Clean Fuels Project is going to be a great idea. It will bring millions of dollars in the local economy because of the constrution activities. They are going to produce additional gallons of gasoline and deisel fuel-enough to supply all of Kern County! That sounds great to me! Not only that, but they have assured us that they will do their part to help out the environment along the way. It seems like a great project, well worth it to me! =)