http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067 It looks like the Doctor has officially rejoined the site, after being on hiatus for about 12 hours.&nbsp; With him he seems to bring a more combative tone, though still cloaked in his rhetoric of civility. Let's start with a bit of history.&nbsp; There was a time when the Doc and I got along quite well.&nbsp; When he and I first started here, I had his back.&nbsp; In fact, refering to him as &quot;Doc&quot; was my way of trying to reach out to him. There we a few blow ups like this one: http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/blognroll/4025 Which led to this: http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/blognroll/4026 Which led to this: http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/blognroll/4027 A big-time blunder by a right-wing Bakersfield blogger who goes by his initials, Dr. BLT, and who is the self-proclaimed King of Blog and Roll, is now being compared to Dan Rather's fall from grace (listen to one-song sound-track to this blog thread now). Dr. BLT, (who recently alledgedly jumped the gun, implying that a Bakersfield Bush-bashing blogger had deleted comments he made at the Bush-bashing site) was noteably chagrined when a trusted commenting party who goes by the screen name of TomW said in a comment that he trusted that Bush-bashing blogger from Bakersfield had not banned the blog n roll one-man band, Dr. BLT. That's right! There is a rumor that the newly disgraced Dr. BLT (aka, yours truly) has committed the biggest bloggin' blunder since the Rather Matter. Was the alledged fascist-styled censoring incident the result of a technical glitch, is the alledged censoring party covering up his tracks, or is a vast left-wing conspiracy involved. Or, is this simply a lame publicity stunt? You are the commenter. You decide. Ah, trips down memory lane. As time went on, he seemed to realize that controversy was good for readership.&nbsp; Stirring things up became more important than getting along.&nbsp; Which is all well and good except when some of us are actually trying to find ways of getting along. His style of acting like the kid on the playground who hits people then cries to the teachers when he gets hit back has become ingrained, rewarded by the desire on the part of a lot of people to defend their position against outrageous attack and to comfort and be kind to people who feel they have been wronged. So the question now is how do you deal with this type of blogger?&nbsp; Do you just ignore them as someone who's only goal is the attention (good or bad) that is generated by this shuttling back and forth from agitator to martyr, do you try to engage them and point out the folly of their ways, or do you actually begin to act in the way that he has at one time or another accused many of us of acting and give him no quarter? My temptation now is to be true to my word: posted by TomW on Sep 6, 2006 at 03:51 PM You get one freebie, Doc.&nbsp; Then we go after you like chickens seeing blood.&nbsp; ;) But I'm sure my better angels will once again get the best of me.&nbsp; What say you? It looks like the Doctor has officially rejoined the site, after being on hiatus for about 12 hours.&nbsp; With him he seems to bring a more combative tone, though still cloaked in his rhetoric of civility. Let's start with a bit of history.&nbsp; There was a time when the Doc and I got along quite well.&nbsp; When he and I first started here, I had his back.&nbsp; In fact, refering to him as &quot;Doc&quot; was my way of trying to reach out to him. There we a few blow ups like this one: http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/blognroll/4025 Which led to this: http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/blognroll/4026 Which led to this: http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/blognroll/4027 A big-time blunder by a right-wing Bakersfield blogger who goes by his initials, Dr. BLT, and who is the self-proclaimed King of Blog and Roll, is now being compared to Dan Rather's fall from grace (listen to one-song sound-track to this blog thread now). Dr. BLT, (who recently alledgedly jumped the gun, implying that a Bakersfield Bush-bashing blogger had deleted comments he made at the Bush-bashing site) was noteably chagrined when a trusted commenting party who goes by the screen name of TomW said in a comment that he trusted that Bush-bashing blogger from Bakersfield had not banned the blog n roll one-man band, Dr. BLT. That's right! There is a rumor that the newly disgraced Dr. BLT (aka, yours truly) has committed the biggest bloggin' blunder since the Rather Matter. Was the alledged fascist-styled censoring incident the result of a technical glitch, is the alledged censoring party covering up his tracks, or is a vast left-wing conspiracy involved. Or, is this simply a lame publicity stunt? You are the commenter. You decide. Ah, trips down memory lane. As time went on, he seemed to realize that controversy was good for readership.&nbsp; Stirring things up became more important than getting along.&nbsp; Which is all well and good except when some of us are actually trying to find ways of getting along. His style of acting like the kid on the playground who hits people then cries to the teachers when he gets hit back has become ingrained, rewarded by the desire on the part of a lot of people to defend their position against outrageous attack and to comfort and be kind to people who feel they have been wronged. So the question now is how do you deal with this type of blogger?&nbsp; Do you just ignore them as someone who's only goal is the attention (good or bad) that is generated by this shuttling back and forth from agitator to martyr, do you try to engage them and point out the folly of their ways, or do you actually begin to act in the way that he has at one time or another accused many of us of acting and give him no quarter? My temptation now is to be true to my word: posted by TomW on Sep 6, 2006 at 03:51 PM You get one freebie, Doc.&nbsp; Then we go after you like chickens seeing blood.&nbsp; ;) But I'm sure my better angels will once again get the best of me.&nbsp; What say you? en-us Heh heh!&nbsp; There's a history here of course that I know nothing of...sounds very interesting...but I felt compelled to encourage his discourse.&nbsp; It sounds like it is never boring here...Dusty dragged me kicking and screaming to bak.com...so I hope I don't ruin things for people. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88026 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88026 Heh heh!&nbsp; There's a history here of course that I know nothing of...sounds very interesting...but I felt compelled to encourage his discourse.&nbsp; It sounds like it is never boring here...Dusty dragged me kicking and screaming to bak.com...so I hope I don't ruin things for people. <p>One thing I find very telling about Doc is that rarely anyone will help him defend his position. Not even the <span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">anonymous </span>posters.</p> <p>In Usenet, Doc would be considered a disrupter. His only intention is to derail the blog or thread without offering anything constructive to the conversation. The only thing he's good for is repeating the same rightwing talking points you can hear on OxyRush's show or Faux News. He rarely follows up what he says when challenged and when he's asked for evidence or proof, he starts ad hominem attacks.</p> <p>He intentionally baits people and then&nbsp;pouts when his baiting elicits a negative response. I don't for a second believe he's a psychologist. A patient, yes.</p> <p>I have a cousin like Doc. He's no longer invited to any family functions.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88029 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88029 <p>One thing I find very telling about Doc is that rarely anyone will help him defend his position. Not even the <span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">anonymous </span>posters.</p> <p>In Usenet, Doc would be considered a disrupter. His only intention is to derail the blog or thread without offering anything constructive to the conversation. The only thing he's good for is repeating the same rightwing talking points you can hear on OxyRush's show or Faux News. He rarely follows up what he says when challenged and when he's asked for evidence or proof, he starts ad hominem attacks.</p> <p>He intentionally baits people and then&nbsp;pouts when his baiting elicits a negative response. I don't for a second believe he's a psychologist. A patient, yes.</p> <p>I have a cousin like Doc. He's no longer invited to any family functions.</p> <p>None of us are perfect Tom.&nbsp; Or are we?&nbsp; You must be without sin, because you've just thrown the first stone.&nbsp; That's okay, for the most part, you missed.&nbsp; At least you didn't hit any vital areas.&nbsp; </p> <p>None of us can live up to our own ideals, but we should still hold to those ideals and strive to make our behavior match those ideals.&nbsp; </p> <p>It appears you've pointed out a few chinks in my armor, Tom, but, chinks or no chinks, I'm back in the Bakersfield blogosphere battle, and this time I'm in it to win----not win in a selfish way, but in a collaborative way in which the ultimate victor, and the ultimate champion is civility.&nbsp; I was tempted to get defensive when I came across this thread, but my memories of the good old days when Tom and I strived to see eye to eye far outshine any recent memories of a critical nature.&nbsp; </p> <p>We all take a risk when we hit that &quot;submit comment&quot; button, in terms of how our comments and blog threads will be perceived.&nbsp; And I've said a few foolish things and jumped to a few foolish conclusions--------but none warranting the type of vitriol and verbal abuse that I've encountered here by those who hate me and form conclusions about me before even getting to know me.&nbsp; </p> <p>I don't hate those who hate me.&nbsp; I don't wish evil upon those who wish evil upon me.&nbsp; Jesus said to love our enemies.</p> <p>Tom, I've never considered you an ememy, though you've clearly made an effort to distance yourself from me of late.&nbsp; I've always respected your opinions and I've always admired your candor.&nbsp; You just happen to come to the defense of the wrong people, and you just happen to target the wrong people.&nbsp; I won't hold it against you.&nbsp; God bless you!&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>As for GrpThink's comments,&nbsp;I don't make it a point to hold grudges or to dig up hateful vitriol that commenting parties like GrpThink have made.&nbsp; All I ask of those who have come upon his statement here, is to go back and compare the content of GrpThink's comments with my contributions.&nbsp; When you compare our comments you will be clear in your understand of what is constructive and what is destructive discourse.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88030 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88030 <p>None of us are perfect Tom.&nbsp; Or are we?&nbsp; You must be without sin, because you've just thrown the first stone.&nbsp; That's okay, for the most part, you missed.&nbsp; At least you didn't hit any vital areas.&nbsp; </p> <p>None of us can live up to our own ideals, but we should still hold to those ideals and strive to make our behavior match those ideals.&nbsp; </p> <p>It appears you've pointed out a few chinks in my armor, Tom, but, chinks or no chinks, I'm back in the Bakersfield blogosphere battle, and this time I'm in it to win----not win in a selfish way, but in a collaborative way in which the ultimate victor, and the ultimate champion is civility.&nbsp; I was tempted to get defensive when I came across this thread, but my memories of the good old days when Tom and I strived to see eye to eye far outshine any recent memories of a critical nature.&nbsp; </p> <p>We all take a risk when we hit that &quot;submit comment&quot; button, in terms of how our comments and blog threads will be perceived.&nbsp; And I've said a few foolish things and jumped to a few foolish conclusions--------but none warranting the type of vitriol and verbal abuse that I've encountered here by those who hate me and form conclusions about me before even getting to know me.&nbsp; </p> <p>I don't hate those who hate me.&nbsp; I don't wish evil upon those who wish evil upon me.&nbsp; Jesus said to love our enemies.</p> <p>Tom, I've never considered you an ememy, though you've clearly made an effort to distance yourself from me of late.&nbsp; I've always respected your opinions and I've always admired your candor.&nbsp; You just happen to come to the defense of the wrong people, and you just happen to target the wrong people.&nbsp; I won't hold it against you.&nbsp; God bless you!&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>As for GrpThink's comments,&nbsp;I don't make it a point to hold grudges or to dig up hateful vitriol that commenting parties like GrpThink have made.&nbsp; All I ask of those who have come upon his statement here, is to go back and compare the content of GrpThink's comments with my contributions.&nbsp; When you compare our comments you will be clear in your understand of what is constructive and what is destructive discourse.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p><font color="#ff0000">so I hope I don't ruin things for people</font></p> <p>That's my job according to Doc and Nancy.</p> <p>But then, someone's got to call out the rightwing idiots on their B.S.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88031 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88031 <p><font color="#ff0000">so I hope I don't ruin things for people</font></p> <p>That's my job according to Doc and Nancy.</p> <p>But then, someone's got to call out the rightwing idiots on their B.S.</p> <p><font color="#ff0000">and this time I'm in it to win</font></p> <p>The only way that will happen is if you start backing up the crap you spew and stop projecting on everyone as you're running away.</p> <p>The proof will be in the pudding, so to speak.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88033 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88033 <p><font color="#ff0000">and this time I'm in it to win</font></p> <p>The only way that will happen is if you start backing up the crap you spew and stop projecting on everyone as you're running away.</p> <p>The proof will be in the pudding, so to speak.</p> <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="1">TomW~if twins could be born of separate mothers and fathers,in different times and places..well we would definitely be related..say&nbsp;I ?&nbsp;a combo of the above,reaching out because that is the thing we do best,a bit of pecking because some so richly deserve it,and we are but human,some pointing out of &quot;is this halo time Doc or tined pitchfork time?&quot; and ignoring each to his or her own strengths.I truly believe this is all a test~for what I have no clue~ but the obvious&quot;wax &quot;baby&quot; held in a hand&quot;type of post&nbsp;I try to stay away from,otherwise i comment ..after all it is my satisfaction that counts here(JOKE) not anyones else's..At a point it is obvious some people need to work on their egos,but my advise is to do that in some real way that will last them,not simply jumping up and down shouting &quot;Look at me&quot;</font> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88037 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88037 <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="1">TomW~if twins could be born of separate mothers and fathers,in different times and places..well we would definitely be related..say&nbsp;I ?&nbsp;a combo of the above,reaching out because that is the thing we do best,a bit of pecking because some so richly deserve it,and we are but human,some pointing out of &quot;is this halo time Doc or tined pitchfork time?&quot; and ignoring each to his or her own strengths.I truly believe this is all a test~for what I have no clue~ but the obvious&quot;wax &quot;baby&quot; held in a hand&quot;type of post&nbsp;I try to stay away from,otherwise i comment ..after all it is my satisfaction that counts here(JOKE) not anyones else's..At a point it is obvious some people need to work on their egos,but my advise is to do that in some real way that will last them,not simply jumping up and down shouting &quot;Look at me&quot;</font> GrpThnk...but they don't want us to call them on their BS.&nbsp; That's the point...sort of.&nbsp; They want to say their thing but either we aren't supposed to notice...or simply be quiet about it.&nbsp; Yet they don't offer us the same equality...they don't consider what they do to us as bashing...only the left pushes and jabs. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88039 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88039 GrpThnk...but they don't want us to call them on their BS.&nbsp; That's the point...sort of.&nbsp; They want to say their thing but either we aren't supposed to notice...or simply be quiet about it.&nbsp; Yet they don't offer us the same equality...they don't consider what they do to us as bashing...only the left pushes and jabs. <p>...</p> <p><img alt="Soap" src="http://tvmegasite.net/images/Web/newsitepics/day/days/DOOL%20logo.jpg" /></p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88040 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88040 <p>...</p> <p><img alt="Soap" src="http://tvmegasite.net/images/Web/newsitepics/day/days/DOOL%20logo.jpg" /></p> LOL! http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88043 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88043 LOL! <p>Yes, I do want you to call me on my BS, if, in fact it is BS, and I want you to call me out on my &quot;bashing.&quot;&nbsp; So, please give me an example of when and where I have personally attacked or&nbsp;bashed anybody at this site.&nbsp;&nbsp; Hardliner, you never fail to make me smile or laugh.&nbsp; And you, my friend (if I may take the liberty of calling you a friend)&nbsp;are a prime example of somebody here who knows how to disagree, and to disagree without making disparaging remarks about the person you disagree with.&nbsp; </p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88045 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88045 <p>Yes, I do want you to call me on my BS, if, in fact it is BS, and I want you to call me out on my &quot;bashing.&quot;&nbsp; So, please give me an example of when and where I have personally attacked or&nbsp;bashed anybody at this site.&nbsp;&nbsp; Hardliner, you never fail to make me smile or laugh.&nbsp; And you, my friend (if I may take the liberty of calling you a friend)&nbsp;are a prime example of somebody here who knows how to disagree, and to disagree without making disparaging remarks about the person you disagree with.&nbsp; </p> Doc, my point is that no one here hates you.&nbsp; You try to get attention by saying outrageous things and then whining when you get smacked for it.&nbsp; The problem is that none of the standard behavior modification that works so well on most people here, myself included, seems to work with you since you seem to respond positively to any attention.<br /> <br /> Help me to help you, Doc.&nbsp; If you're in it to bring people together, that's great.&nbsp; If you're in it to fight, that's great too.&nbsp; But if you're going to need to make a choice for yourself or there won't be much sympathy when the choice is made for you. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88049 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88049 Doc, my point is that no one here hates you.&nbsp; You try to get attention by saying outrageous things and then whining when you get smacked for it.&nbsp; The problem is that none of the standard behavior modification that works so well on most people here, myself included, seems to work with you since you seem to respond positively to any attention.<br /> <br /> Help me to help you, Doc.&nbsp; If you're in it to bring people together, that's great.&nbsp; If you're in it to fight, that's great too.&nbsp; But if you're going to need to make a choice for yourself or there won't be much sympathy when the choice is made for you. <p><font color="#ff0000">please give me an example of when and where I have personally attacked</font> </p> <p>Too easy. </p> <p>All anyone has to do is search your posts about Dusty. Just before you took your ball and went home (and then flip-flopped and came back), you were attacking her regularly.</p> <p>If you intend to "<font color="#ff0000">and this time I'm in it to win</font><font color="#000000">", the first thing you might want to consider is being honest not only with everyone here, but with yourself.</font></p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88052 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88052 <p><font color="#ff0000">please give me an example of when and where I have personally attacked</font> </p> <p>Too easy. </p> <p>All anyone has to do is search your posts about Dusty. Just before you took your ball and went home (and then flip-flopped and came back), you were attacking her regularly.</p> <p>If you intend to "<font color="#ff0000">and this time I'm in it to win</font><font color="#000000">", the first thing you might want to consider is being honest not only with everyone here, but with yourself.</font></p> Sage, thanks for the kindness.&nbsp; We're all tryng to muddle through as best we can. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88056 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88056 Sage, thanks for the kindness.&nbsp; We're all tryng to muddle through as best we can. Not so, I hate you, hate you hate you....get it? You are an easy person to hate, you try so hard to make us do it, you devil. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88057 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88057 Not so, I hate you, hate you hate you....get it? You are an easy person to hate, you try so hard to make us do it, you devil. H4F, I figured we'd be in metalandia most of the day anyway, and I've been wanting to get this off my chest. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88058 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88058 H4F, I figured we'd be in metalandia most of the day anyway, and I've been wanting to get this off my chest. True...a person's reasons for being part of the blogosphere here shouldn't be to automatically look for controversy.&nbsp; It should be for discourse of all shapes, sizes and subjects. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88060 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88060 True...a person's reasons for being part of the blogosphere here shouldn't be to automatically look for controversy.&nbsp; It should be for discourse of all shapes, sizes and subjects. And this, ultimately, is the hope, Sumo.&nbsp; To generate real discussion about stuff instead of hit and run attacks and sloganeering by either side.&nbsp; It can be frustrating at times.&nbsp; I find myself trying to talk to people on both sides of the political aisle about dropping the rhetoric and seeing past the rhetoric to ask real questions.&nbsp; The nicknames for Democrats and Republicans aren't helpful, but if you're really trying for understanding, you look past that and try to get to the actual argument.<br /> <br /> We've been trained to spend our time focusing on a single area of each of these issues where we disagree and we need to break away from that and walk it back a few steps to find out where we do agree, where we begin to disagree and why.&nbsp; In most cases, you'll find that we are divided more by our language than our beliefs, but if you can't step past that, you can't get anywhere. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88070 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88070 And this, ultimately, is the hope, Sumo.&nbsp; To generate real discussion about stuff instead of hit and run attacks and sloganeering by either side.&nbsp; It can be frustrating at times.&nbsp; I find myself trying to talk to people on both sides of the political aisle about dropping the rhetoric and seeing past the rhetoric to ask real questions.&nbsp; The nicknames for Democrats and Republicans aren't helpful, but if you're really trying for understanding, you look past that and try to get to the actual argument.<br /> <br /> We've been trained to spend our time focusing on a single area of each of these issues where we disagree and we need to break away from that and walk it back a few steps to find out where we do agree, where we begin to disagree and why.&nbsp; In most cases, you'll find that we are divided more by our language than our beliefs, but if you can't step past that, you can't get anywhere. The rightwingers on this site have so little to be proud of in this current administration. Under Bush, there have been few highlights but many lowlights. It has to be tough to stand your ground if your supporting the current administration. I find ignoring the bloggers that tend to attack rather than discuss the topic of the post works pretty well. I call them on their stupidity and leave it at that. <br /> <br /> When it comes to specific issues, like abortion,&nbsp; I stay out of the fray, your never going to get the 'other side' to see your pov on those topics. Many times they make it about morality (the bible)..the leftwingers make it about the law and the Constitution. <br /> <br /> Very seldom do the rightwingers back up their statements with facts..Many back it up with more of their&nbsp; own pov which is usually filled with emotion and when that fails..they haul out the bible. The bible will never trump the law or the constitution imho, and that is where it starts to get ugly real fast. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88077 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88077 The rightwingers on this site have so little to be proud of in this current administration. Under Bush, there have been few highlights but many lowlights. It has to be tough to stand your ground if your supporting the current administration. I find ignoring the bloggers that tend to attack rather than discuss the topic of the post works pretty well. I call them on their stupidity and leave it at that. <br /> <br /> When it comes to specific issues, like abortion,&nbsp; I stay out of the fray, your never going to get the 'other side' to see your pov on those topics. Many times they make it about morality (the bible)..the leftwingers make it about the law and the Constitution. <br /> <br /> Very seldom do the rightwingers back up their statements with facts..Many back it up with more of their&nbsp; own pov which is usually filled with emotion and when that fails..they haul out the bible. The bible will never trump the law or the constitution imho, and that is where it starts to get ugly real fast. <p>GrpThink, you are the&nbsp;pot calling the kettle black.&nbsp; I'd invite anybody to review the recent heated exchange between dusty and myself.&nbsp; You will find no personal attacks whatsoever launched by me towards dusty.&nbsp; Dusty was offended, not by a personal attack, but by a general comment that disrupted the thread she posted.&nbsp; She was rightfully offended, as I was out of line, and I apologized again and again for offending her.&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88094 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88094 <p>GrpThink, you are the&nbsp;pot calling the kettle black.&nbsp; I'd invite anybody to review the recent heated exchange between dusty and myself.&nbsp; You will find no personal attacks whatsoever launched by me towards dusty.&nbsp; Dusty was offended, not by a personal attack, but by a general comment that disrupted the thread she posted.&nbsp; She was rightfully offended, as I was out of line, and I apologized again and again for offending her.&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> D. I noticed you didn't chime in on the post I cross-posted from Peace Train about abortion.&nbsp; It was such a heart felt issue that I had to put it up.&nbsp; It didn't get too bad in my opinion.&nbsp; Well...there was an Anon of course.&nbsp; I wish people had the guts to blog as themselves and not hide behind an Anon.&nbsp; It makes for easy insults on their part...but no name or avatar to put with that person...and I think it should be a requirement here that no one blog anonymous.&nbsp; If one has something to say...they should have the guts to stand by it with a name of a blog.&nbsp; It's just something that gets my goat I guess...not that it's important...but they should stand behind a blog...not an anonymous insult...they sholdn't be allowed! http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88095 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88095 D. I noticed you didn't chime in on the post I cross-posted from Peace Train about abortion.&nbsp; It was such a heart felt issue that I had to put it up.&nbsp; It didn't get too bad in my opinion.&nbsp; Well...there was an Anon of course.&nbsp; I wish people had the guts to blog as themselves and not hide behind an Anon.&nbsp; It makes for easy insults on their part...but no name or avatar to put with that person...and I think it should be a requirement here that no one blog anonymous.&nbsp; If one has something to say...they should have the guts to stand by it with a name of a blog.&nbsp; It's just something that gets my goat I guess...not that it's important...but they should stand behind a blog...not an anonymous insult...they sholdn't be allowed! Dusty, I actually have gotten into productive discussions about abortion here, but it is again about having the patience to get past the rhetoric.&nbsp; Ron and I once set down the guns long enough to agree on some things related to that very issue. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88105 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88105 Dusty, I actually have gotten into productive discussions about abortion here, but it is again about having the patience to get past the rhetoric.&nbsp; Ron and I once set down the guns long enough to agree on some things related to that very issue. <strong>Tom</strong>, I've found that I am quite often accused of &quot;attacking&quot; a person because I characterize their arguments as &quot;ignorant&quot; or &quot;lies&quot;. I'll often put context into the post by explaining <em>why</em> I believe them to be so. If something I say is opinion or subjective, I'll call that out. But quite often I'll have actual facts or knowledge about the topic which I base my &quot;attack&quot; statement on. When called on it, I'll always (at least attempt to) give the information that led me to make my &quot;attack&quot;. But that doesn't mean feelings aren't still hurt. But dicussions on here can be a contact sport, and I come in fully expecting that. If I step on toes, I'll either apologize (if I was just calling them names to be mean, usually in response to <em>their</em> name-calling), or explain the criteria I used to call them that name. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88106 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88106 <strong>Tom</strong>, I've found that I am quite often accused of &quot;attacking&quot; a person because I characterize their arguments as &quot;ignorant&quot; or &quot;lies&quot;. I'll often put context into the post by explaining <em>why</em> I believe them to be so. If something I say is opinion or subjective, I'll call that out. But quite often I'll have actual facts or knowledge about the topic which I base my &quot;attack&quot; statement on. When called on it, I'll always (at least attempt to) give the information that led me to make my &quot;attack&quot;. But that doesn't mean feelings aren't still hurt. But dicussions on here can be a contact sport, and I come in fully expecting that. If I step on toes, I'll either apologize (if I was just calling them names to be mean, usually in response to <em>their</em> name-calling), or explain the criteria I used to call them that name. Sumo, you bring up a good point.&nbsp; Jason, is there any possibility of getting an option to require that comments on our blogs not be anonymous?&nbsp; I know that we have the option of deleting, but then the thread usually devolves into discussions of censorship or the thread gets confused because people have responded to the anons.<br /> <br /> A small check box to disallow anon comments would be nice.&nbsp; :) http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88111 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88111 Sumo, you bring up a good point.&nbsp; Jason, is there any possibility of getting an option to require that comments on our blogs not be anonymous?&nbsp; I know that we have the option of deleting, but then the thread usually devolves into discussions of censorship or the thread gets confused because people have responded to the anons.<br /> <br /> A small check box to disallow anon comments would be nice.&nbsp; :) Mattloch, I know exactly what you mean.&nbsp; Some bloggers here, after the evidence has been provided to the contrary, continue their same allegations.&nbsp; Calling someone a liar is a tough call, since it goes to motive and knowledge.&nbsp; I prefer calling people incorrect, since it doesn't provide a target for them to shoot at.&nbsp; Of course, sometimes willfully ignorant is the better term, and liar is more accurate.<br /> <br /> Think about this for a second though.&nbsp; There are some people who literally don't accept the facts as facts.&nbsp; In that case, are they really lying? http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88118 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88118 Mattloch, I know exactly what you mean.&nbsp; Some bloggers here, after the evidence has been provided to the contrary, continue their same allegations.&nbsp; Calling someone a liar is a tough call, since it goes to motive and knowledge.&nbsp; I prefer calling people incorrect, since it doesn't provide a target for them to shoot at.&nbsp; Of course, sometimes willfully ignorant is the better term, and liar is more accurate.<br /> <br /> Think about this for a second though.&nbsp; There are some people who literally don't accept the facts as facts.&nbsp; In that case, are they really lying? It would help to get ones nose out of that book and get a sample of the real life http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88122 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88122 It would help to get ones nose out of that book and get a sample of the real life <font size="1">I <font face="Comic Sans MS">agree with that little box~ no anon posting ~if you have a reason, do as i do~ya'all know me as sagefever yet i retain some anonymity, yet when needed I can still be held accountable for what is said</font></font> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88124 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88124 <font size="1">I <font face="Comic Sans MS">agree with that little box~ no anon posting ~if you have a reason, do as i do~ya'all know me as sagefever yet i retain some anonymity, yet when needed I can still be held accountable for what is said</font></font> &quot;That book&quot; is 2000 years old and was targeted at a very different society from this one... http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88128 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88128 &quot;That book&quot; is 2000 years old and was targeted at a very different society from this one... <p><font color="#0000ff">&quot;Some bloggers here, after the evidence has been provided to the contrary, continue their same allegations.&quot;</font></p> <p>That's not necessarily a liar, but it <em>is</em> the mark of a bigot -- <em>my</em> descriptive noun of choice.&nbsp; Bigots don't like to be deprived of their reasons to hate, so they'll blow off evidence that might do so.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88132 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88132 <p><font color="#0000ff">&quot;Some bloggers here, after the evidence has been provided to the contrary, continue their same allegations.&quot;</font></p> <p>That's not necessarily a liar, but it <em>is</em> the mark of a bigot -- <em>my</em> descriptive noun of choice.&nbsp; Bigots don't like to be deprived of their reasons to hate, so they'll blow off evidence that might do so.</p> <p>Am I a total geek that my first thought on reading the title of this blog was &quot;Doctor Who?&quot;*</p> <p>.</p> <p>*(Don't ya just love rhetorical questions?)</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88133 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88133 <p>Am I a total geek that my first thought on reading the title of this blog was &quot;Doctor Who?&quot;*</p> <p>.</p> <p>*(Don't ya just love rhetorical questions?)</p> RF, LOL.&nbsp; I thought the same thing when I was typing it.&nbsp; BTW, loving Eccelston (sp) on Heroes. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88142 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88142 RF, LOL.&nbsp; I thought the same thing when I was typing it.&nbsp; BTW, loving Eccelston (sp) on Heroes. Which is why I'll almost always give them the option <strong>Tom</strong>. &quot;You're either ignorant or a liar.&quot; Or sometimes &quot;willfully ignorant&quot; after I've given them the information which they don't respond to and continue to say the opposite of. And actual personal attacks after they've attacked me. Of course, I'll tailor the insult to their personality. Which is why I miss Mocus; there was so much to work with....... http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88143 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88143 Which is why I'll almost always give them the option <strong>Tom</strong>. &quot;You're either ignorant or a liar.&quot; Or sometimes &quot;willfully ignorant&quot; after I've given them the information which they don't respond to and continue to say the opposite of. And actual personal attacks after they've attacked me. Of course, I'll tailor the insult to their personality. Which is why I miss Mocus; there was so much to work with....... Doc, I missed this part of your comment earlier:<br /> <br /> <font color="#000080">None of us are perfect Tom.&nbsp; Or are we?&nbsp; You must be without sin, because you've just thrown the first stone.&nbsp; That's okay, for the most part, you missed.&nbsp; At least you didn't hit any vital areas. </font><br /> <br /> Interesting, that.&nbsp; I guess the whole point of bringing up the history was to show that this was indeed a long way from being the first stone.&nbsp; In fact, when you cast the first stone, being the makesthingsgo guy I am, I helped you put your glass house together again.&nbsp; Sorry to metaphor jump there. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88147 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88147 Doc, I missed this part of your comment earlier:<br /> <br /> <font color="#000080">None of us are perfect Tom.&nbsp; Or are we?&nbsp; You must be without sin, because you've just thrown the first stone.&nbsp; That's okay, for the most part, you missed.&nbsp; At least you didn't hit any vital areas. </font><br /> <br /> Interesting, that.&nbsp; I guess the whole point of bringing up the history was to show that this was indeed a long way from being the first stone.&nbsp; In fact, when you cast the first stone, being the makesthingsgo guy I am, I helped you put your glass house together again.&nbsp; Sorry to metaphor jump there. <div class="blogcommentbody"> <p>The &quot;history&quot; you've directed folks to is highly selective, Tom for the purpose of supporting your argument.&nbsp; &nbsp;It is not an adequate sampling of my contribution here, but you do make a few good&nbsp;points that I intend to give serious consideration to.&nbsp; The problem is that you've singled me out for doing what so many others do, not that two or more wrongs make a right.&nbsp;&nbsp; </p> <p>Moreover, you've complained about me saying things to draw attention to myself, but then you've gone ahead and created a post specifically about me.&nbsp; A bit of a contradiction, wouldn't you say?</p> <p><font color="#0000ff"><em>&quot;Some bloggers here, after the evidence has been provided to the contrary, continue their same allegations.&quot;</em></font></p> <p><em>That's not necessarily a liar, but it is the mark of a bigot -- my descriptive noun of choice.&nbsp; Bigots don't like to be deprived of their reasons to hate, so they'll blow off evidence that might do so.</em></p> <p>I don't think this is necessarily an indication of a liar or a bigot, though I understand the temptation of folks to jump to those sorts of conclusions about those whom they really don't know on a personal basis.</p> <p>Some folks here, including myself at times, due to time constraints, don't have the luxury of going into great detail so, right or wrong,&nbsp;we abbreviate, or to say things succinctly.&nbsp; Sometimes I'll admit, I've provided little&nbsp;more than an adumbration of my views.&nbsp; Many times I have bitten off more than I had the time to chew, and this is a valid criticism of me.&nbsp; However, it is generally a matter of time contraints rather than purposely trying to deceive people or an example of bigotry.&nbsp; </p> <p>Moreover, the &quot;evidence provided to the contrary&quot; is often cherry-picked and those of us with day jobs, lacking the luxury of time to follow-up, ultimately&nbsp;suffer the consequences.&nbsp;&nbsp; We can't be as thorough at fact-finding and fact-checking as we really need to be to be taken seriously.&nbsp; </p> <p>Moreover,&nbsp;person may appear to have all of their facts together, and when others lack the luxury of time to sort through their &quot;facts,&quot; they get away with passing off &quot;ostensible facts&quot; as &quot;facts.&quot;&nbsp; What appears to be fact on the surface often fails to stand up to further scrutiny.&nbsp;&nbsp; Unfortunately, most of us lack the luxury of time to adequately examine what is presented as &quot;facts.&quot;&nbsp; Yes, it's an excuse, but it is also a reality-based excuse.&nbsp; </p> <p>As for Mattloch, I've never experienced any of Mattloch's comments as a personal attack.&nbsp; Mattloch, you are generally fair and not out for blood.&nbsp; </p> <p>&nbsp;</p> </div> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88148 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88148 <div class="blogcommentbody"> <p>The &quot;history&quot; you've directed folks to is highly selective, Tom for the purpose of supporting your argument.&nbsp; &nbsp;It is not an adequate sampling of my contribution here, but you do make a few good&nbsp;points that I intend to give serious consideration to.&nbsp; The problem is that you've singled me out for doing what so many others do, not that two or more wrongs make a right.&nbsp;&nbsp; </p> <p>Moreover, you've complained about me saying things to draw attention to myself, but then you've gone ahead and created a post specifically about me.&nbsp; A bit of a contradiction, wouldn't you say?</p> <p><font color="#0000ff"><em>&quot;Some bloggers here, after the evidence has been provided to the contrary, continue their same allegations.&quot;</em></font></p> <p><em>That's not necessarily a liar, but it is the mark of a bigot -- my descriptive noun of choice.&nbsp; Bigots don't like to be deprived of their reasons to hate, so they'll blow off evidence that might do so.</em></p> <p>I don't think this is necessarily an indication of a liar or a bigot, though I understand the temptation of folks to jump to those sorts of conclusions about those whom they really don't know on a personal basis.</p> <p>Some folks here, including myself at times, due to time constraints, don't have the luxury of going into great detail so, right or wrong,&nbsp;we abbreviate, or to say things succinctly.&nbsp; Sometimes I'll admit, I've provided little&nbsp;more than an adumbration of my views.&nbsp; Many times I have bitten off more than I had the time to chew, and this is a valid criticism of me.&nbsp; However, it is generally a matter of time contraints rather than purposely trying to deceive people or an example of bigotry.&nbsp; </p> <p>Moreover, the &quot;evidence provided to the contrary&quot; is often cherry-picked and those of us with day jobs, lacking the luxury of time to follow-up, ultimately&nbsp;suffer the consequences.&nbsp;&nbsp; We can't be as thorough at fact-finding and fact-checking as we really need to be to be taken seriously.&nbsp; </p> <p>Moreover,&nbsp;person may appear to have all of their facts together, and when others lack the luxury of time to sort through their &quot;facts,&quot; they get away with passing off &quot;ostensible facts&quot; as &quot;facts.&quot;&nbsp; What appears to be fact on the surface often fails to stand up to further scrutiny.&nbsp;&nbsp; Unfortunately, most of us lack the luxury of time to adequately examine what is presented as &quot;facts.&quot;&nbsp; Yes, it's an excuse, but it is also a reality-based excuse.&nbsp; </p> <p>As for Mattloch, I've never experienced any of Mattloch's comments as a personal attack.&nbsp; Mattloch, you are generally fair and not out for blood.&nbsp; </p> <p>&nbsp;</p> </div> If the rightwingers wish to provide a citation for their pov then they can rely on facts instead of emotion or biblical scripture. To say that you don't have the time is ridiculous. If anyone wishes to have an intelligent debate on the 'issues'..one would expect them to be well versed on the subject. It takes seconds to google something and cull information to support your position. Even the &quot;diaper guy&quot; can do that . http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88160 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88160 If the rightwingers wish to provide a citation for their pov then they can rely on facts instead of emotion or biblical scripture. To say that you don't have the time is ridiculous. If anyone wishes to have an intelligent debate on the 'issues'..one would expect them to be well versed on the subject. It takes seconds to google something and cull information to support your position. Even the &quot;diaper guy&quot; can do that . Diaper guy...LOL! http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88163 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88163 Diaper guy...LOL! The history I've posted is selective, Doc, specifically because I am trying to make a point.&nbsp; If you'd like me to put up more history on this topic, I'm happy to.&nbsp; I've singled you out because frankly you've been the most vociferous practitioner of this tactical type of blogging.&nbsp; Also because you have made yourself and your suffering at the hands of other bloggers a theme in your work, I figured it was a valid topic for discussion.<br /> <br /> I've tried to move beyond that though, into a real call for civility and working together on both sides.<br /> <br /> As far as saying that you're a bit self-involved and then posting on you, it's not really a contradiction.&nbsp; Now, had I said that and then began to post about myself, that would be a contradiction. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88169 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88169 The history I've posted is selective, Doc, specifically because I am trying to make a point.&nbsp; If you'd like me to put up more history on this topic, I'm happy to.&nbsp; I've singled you out because frankly you've been the most vociferous practitioner of this tactical type of blogging.&nbsp; Also because you have made yourself and your suffering at the hands of other bloggers a theme in your work, I figured it was a valid topic for discussion.<br /> <br /> I've tried to move beyond that though, into a real call for civility and working together on both sides.<br /> <br /> As far as saying that you're a bit self-involved and then posting on you, it's not really a contradiction.&nbsp; Now, had I said that and then began to post about myself, that would be a contradiction. I believe this&nbsp; &quot;You just happen to come to the defense of the wrong people, and you just happen to target the wrong people.&nbsp; I won't hold it against you.&nbsp; God bless you!&nbsp;&quot; would constitute the remarks of what is commonly known as a &quot;Concern Troll&quot;. The kind of person who seems to honestly be trying to see your point of view while pointing out just how wrong you are but in a most civil manner: &quot;and this time I'm in it to win----not win in a selfish way, but in a collaborative way in which the ultimate victor, and the ultimate champion is civility&quot;.&nbsp; I choose to stay away from his posts because trolls scare me. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88175 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88175 I believe this&nbsp; &quot;You just happen to come to the defense of the wrong people, and you just happen to target the wrong people.&nbsp; I won't hold it against you.&nbsp; God bless you!&nbsp;&quot; would constitute the remarks of what is commonly known as a &quot;Concern Troll&quot;. The kind of person who seems to honestly be trying to see your point of view while pointing out just how wrong you are but in a most civil manner: &quot;and this time I'm in it to win----not win in a selfish way, but in a collaborative way in which the ultimate victor, and the ultimate champion is civility&quot;.&nbsp; I choose to stay away from his posts because trolls scare me. Dusty, I'm not against citing Scripture as an argument.&nbsp; But if you do that, you open yourself up to challenges that are both scriptural and relating to how the Bible should be applied to the law.<br /> <br /> If someone quotes the Bible, that doesn't bother me a bit, but they should at least acknowledge it when contrary scripture is quoted back. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88176 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88176 Dusty, I'm not against citing Scripture as an argument.&nbsp; But if you do that, you open yourself up to challenges that are both scriptural and relating to how the Bible should be applied to the law.<br /> <br /> If someone quotes the Bible, that doesn't bother me a bit, but they should at least acknowledge it when contrary scripture is quoted back. Your right Tom, using scripture to back up a pov is fine..but as you say..it opens up another can of worms as well. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88178 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88178 Your right Tom, using scripture to back up a pov is fine..but as you say..it opens up another can of worms as well. For myself, I usually don't quote the Book for just that reason.&nbsp; As a Christian, I don't feel like it gets you anywhere to get into the Scriptural arguments when talking about law, simply because people have such different views on it and you end up in a discussion over your faith rather than the topic. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88184 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88184 For myself, I usually don't quote the Book for just that reason.&nbsp; As a Christian, I don't feel like it gets you anywhere to get into the Scriptural arguments when talking about law, simply because people have such different views on it and you end up in a discussion over your faith rather than the topic. I agree Tom. The fact that scripture should have nothing to do with law is why I don't understand people using it in most issues. The Bible is a moral fairy tale to me about a time long ago that has very little to do with the here and now. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88187 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88187 I agree Tom. The fact that scripture should have nothing to do with law is why I don't understand people using it in most issues. The Bible is a moral fairy tale to me about a time long ago that has very little to do with the here and now. <strong>BLT</strong>, I realize time constraints. So let me explain it using this analogy: discussions are like a game, say of chess. Opening positions are made, and the &quot;game&quot; progresses as each side takes a turn, countering the previous arguments, statements, and facts with their own &quot;move&quot; of similar statements. Quite often people make beginning statements that are the most common (knowledge); in chess these <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_opening">recognized moves</a> would be called &quot;openings&quot; or &quot;defenses&quot;, and are named after the originator. There are then series of moves based off of the initial move, called &quot;book moves&quot;. More advanced players know &quot;book moves&quot; out to 25 moves or more. <p>So..... quite often somebody will make a statement or argument which I or others recognize. As such, we will move ahead to the point at which serious discussion takes over from rhetoric or sloganeering (your &quot;bumperstickers&quot;). Some people will not recognize this shift/move, and continue on their step-by-step progress. Our frustration comes when the person <u>refuses</u> to move forward with us to the meaningful portion of the discussion. More frustrating is when one side realizes the &quot;game&quot; is flawed at a &quot;meta-&quot; level, and attempts to move the discussion &quot;above&quot; the &quot;gameboard&quot; (quite often the philosophical, social, or biological&nbsp;underpinnings of the discussion itself).</p> <p>It can be an exercise in &quot;head, meet wall&quot; when <em>one</em> person knows where the discussion is headed and the other doesn't, or refuses to come along. That frustration can result in name-calling, or at the very least a calling-out (does the word &quot;obtuse&quot; sound familiar?). When one person shows a <u>constant</u> record of feet-dragging, that is when it moves to Tom's &quot;motive and knowledge&quot;. How many times do you need to document or link to a piece of information before it becomes futile? If the discussion has moved onto &quot;I'll show you mine if you show me yours&quot;, then at least have the common courtesy to respond in kind. To blow past the other person's work and continue on your merry way is rude, and actually hurts the thread. Demanding proof, then ignoring the proof provided is the sign of a <u>true</u> jerk. Be prepared for some frustration on the part of the other party.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88198 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88198 <strong>BLT</strong>, I realize time constraints. So let me explain it using this analogy: discussions are like a game, say of chess. Opening positions are made, and the &quot;game&quot; progresses as each side takes a turn, countering the previous arguments, statements, and facts with their own &quot;move&quot; of similar statements. Quite often people make beginning statements that are the most common (knowledge); in chess these <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_opening">recognized moves</a> would be called &quot;openings&quot; or &quot;defenses&quot;, and are named after the originator. There are then series of moves based off of the initial move, called &quot;book moves&quot;. More advanced players know &quot;book moves&quot; out to 25 moves or more. <p>So..... quite often somebody will make a statement or argument which I or others recognize. As such, we will move ahead to the point at which serious discussion takes over from rhetoric or sloganeering (your &quot;bumperstickers&quot;). Some people will not recognize this shift/move, and continue on their step-by-step progress. Our frustration comes when the person <u>refuses</u> to move forward with us to the meaningful portion of the discussion. More frustrating is when one side realizes the &quot;game&quot; is flawed at a &quot;meta-&quot; level, and attempts to move the discussion &quot;above&quot; the &quot;gameboard&quot; (quite often the philosophical, social, or biological&nbsp;underpinnings of the discussion itself).</p> <p>It can be an exercise in &quot;head, meet wall&quot; when <em>one</em> person knows where the discussion is headed and the other doesn't, or refuses to come along. That frustration can result in name-calling, or at the very least a calling-out (does the word &quot;obtuse&quot; sound familiar?). When one person shows a <u>constant</u> record of feet-dragging, that is when it moves to Tom's &quot;motive and knowledge&quot;. How many times do you need to document or link to a piece of information before it becomes futile? If the discussion has moved onto &quot;I'll show you mine if you show me yours&quot;, then at least have the common courtesy to respond in kind. To blow past the other person's work and continue on your merry way is rude, and actually hurts the thread. Demanding proof, then ignoring the proof provided is the sign of a <u>true</u> jerk. Be prepared for some frustration on the part of the other party.</p> I don't agree that it's a fairy tale (here we go), but the moral lessons are important and should be heeded.&nbsp; Our government, however, should not be in the morality business, they should be in governance business, which to my mind means creating the most opportunity and benefit to the greatest number while reducing harm to the greatest number. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88200 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88200 I don't agree that it's a fairy tale (here we go), but the moral lessons are important and should be heeded.&nbsp; Our government, however, should not be in the morality business, they should be in governance business, which to my mind means creating the most opportunity and benefit to the greatest number while reducing harm to the greatest number. Fairy tales teach moral lessons too Tom. :P http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88203 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88203 Fairy tales teach moral lessons too Tom. :P Wow, Mattloch, very well put together. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88206 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88206 Wow, Mattloch, very well put together. Settle, Dusty, or I'll convert you. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88207 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88207 Settle, Dusty, or I'll convert you. Mattloch is one of the best at debating/discussing an issue and his explanation is great. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88209 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88209 Mattloch is one of the best at debating/discussing an issue and his explanation is great. Tom, I am a Christan..what were you going to try to convert me to dear man?&nbsp; :) http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88211 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88211 Tom, I am a Christan..what were you going to try to convert me to dear man?&nbsp; :) Oops, my bad, Dusty.&nbsp; I thought maybe you'd lost the faith there. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88214 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88214 Oops, my bad, Dusty.&nbsp; I thought maybe you'd lost the faith there. Nope, I still have it. I call myself a Christan since I do believe in Christ's teachings. It's that we should attempt to apply them to daily life in this century where it gets interesting. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88219 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88219 Nope, I still have it. I call myself a Christan since I do believe in Christ's teachings. It's that we should attempt to apply them to daily life in this century where it gets interesting. Well...you'll have to try to convert me I guess...I gave up on that hypocrisy a long time ago.&nbsp; Of course...no offense to those who do believe in a higher being...there just doesn't happen to be a being for me. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88222 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88222 Well...you'll have to try to convert me I guess...I gave up on that hypocrisy a long time ago.&nbsp; Of course...no offense to those who do believe in a higher being...there just doesn't happen to be a being for me. True that, Dusty. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88223 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88223 True that, Dusty. <p>Dusty, toward the last year of <em>my</em> faith, I began to saw the detailed&nbsp;rules contained in&nbsp;letters of Paul as specific revelations/dispensations to that culture at that time.&nbsp; If Jesus was the Great Physician, then the letters of Paul were prescriptions intended to treat a particular problem in a particular time and place.</p> <p>The <em>general</em> rules were summed up in Jesus' two greatest commandments, restated again in different ways in Romans 13:9-10, &nbsp;Romans 14, and James 2:8.&nbsp; I came to see the letters of Paul as&nbsp;particular applications of those general rules in specific situations -- not as a &quot;whole new Law&quot; designed to supplant the old Law.</p> <p>Too many Christians treat the letters of Paul as an <em>updated version of the Law</em> rather than a specific application of the general commandments of the New Covenant.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88224 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88224 <p>Dusty, toward the last year of <em>my</em> faith, I began to saw the detailed&nbsp;rules contained in&nbsp;letters of Paul as specific revelations/dispensations to that culture at that time.&nbsp; If Jesus was the Great Physician, then the letters of Paul were prescriptions intended to treat a particular problem in a particular time and place.</p> <p>The <em>general</em> rules were summed up in Jesus' two greatest commandments, restated again in different ways in Romans 13:9-10, &nbsp;Romans 14, and James 2:8.&nbsp; I came to see the letters of Paul as&nbsp;particular applications of those general rules in specific situations -- not as a &quot;whole new Law&quot; designed to supplant the old Law.</p> <p>Too many Christians treat the letters of Paul as an <em>updated version of the Law</em> rather than a specific application of the general commandments of the New Covenant.</p> H4F, I can see your point and agree with it. Which is why the bible, depending on which one you read, is merely a guide for how to live today since it was written centuries ago. The Old testament does nothing for me and the bible itself is so full of contradictions its crazy. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88227 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88227 H4F, I can see your point and agree with it. Which is why the bible, depending on which one you read, is merely a guide for how to live today since it was written centuries ago. The Old testament does nothing for me and the bible itself is so full of contradictions its crazy. I'll have to admit to at least partially stealing, or at least adapting, the gameboard analogy from a debate camp lecture I attended years ago. It was focused more on teaching the difference between &quot;regular&quot; debate and &quot;meta-level&quot; debate (aka critiques). You can win at chess and still lose the &quot;game&quot; if your opponent successfully argues that chess doesn't count for anything, or perhaps that you should instead be playing Monopoly. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88250 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88250 I'll have to admit to at least partially stealing, or at least adapting, the gameboard analogy from a debate camp lecture I attended years ago. It was focused more on teaching the difference between &quot;regular&quot; debate and &quot;meta-level&quot; debate (aka critiques). You can win at chess and still lose the &quot;game&quot; if your opponent successfully argues that chess doesn't count for anything, or perhaps that you should instead be playing Monopoly. <p>*pops a bag of popcorn* </p> <p>*adjusts my chair*</p> <p>*watches*</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I do find it REALLY funny that Tom posted at 10:11am and, within twenty minutes, someone who said they had left the blogs was ON IT.&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88263 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88263 <p>*pops a bag of popcorn* </p> <p>*adjusts my chair*</p> <p>*watches*</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I do find it REALLY funny that Tom posted at 10:11am and, within twenty minutes, someone who said they had left the blogs was ON IT.&nbsp;</p> LOL PM..I hope you have some good popcorn, the buttery kind. Although it IS fake butter I am told :P http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88268 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88268 LOL PM..I hope you have some good popcorn, the buttery kind. Although it IS fake butter I am told :P That image is too large and fouls up the display of the blog. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88270 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88270 That image is too large and fouls up the display of the blog. <p>It looks like my most recent comment got lost in cyberspace, so if I end up double-posting, you'll know what happened.&nbsp; </p> <p>What I wanted to say to Mattloch, and to Tom, my brother in Christ (if I may take the liberty of referring to you as a brother in Christ),&nbsp;is that both of you have valid criticisms about my mode of operation of late.&nbsp; I will carefully reflect upon them as constructive criticism and try to provide comments that are more productive in the future.&nbsp; </p> <p>These two gentlemen are not afraid to confront bloggers when they go astray, but so far, neither have been rude or offensive in the way they have confronted me about my mistakes.&nbsp; This should serve as a model for others who are more inclined to respond with personal attacks rather than constructive criticism.&nbsp; </p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88271 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88271 <p>It looks like my most recent comment got lost in cyberspace, so if I end up double-posting, you'll know what happened.&nbsp; </p> <p>What I wanted to say to Mattloch, and to Tom, my brother in Christ (if I may take the liberty of referring to you as a brother in Christ),&nbsp;is that both of you have valid criticisms about my mode of operation of late.&nbsp; I will carefully reflect upon them as constructive criticism and try to provide comments that are more productive in the future.&nbsp; </p> <p>These two gentlemen are not afraid to confront bloggers when they go astray, but so far, neither have been rude or offensive in the way they have confronted me about my mistakes.&nbsp; This should serve as a model for others who are more inclined to respond with personal attacks rather than constructive criticism.&nbsp; </p> Mattlock, where's your proof on all this BS, you sure can type alot for some one that can;t even tie his own shoes.&nbsp; Did you read another book, to be able to type so much? http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88291 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88291 Mattlock, where's your proof on all this BS, you sure can type alot for some one that can;t even tie his own shoes.&nbsp; Did you read another book, to be able to type so much? Nice flaming job there murphy..real cute following BLT's comment too. <br /> <br /> So, BLT you say this kind of stuff shouldn't be done: <em><strong>Of course you feel you can&nbsp;afford to be arrogant, demanding, bullying, and verbally abusive, because you're surrounded with folks who support your opinions and would not stand up to you no matter how crude, rude and abusive you became. -</strong></em>Do you consider that constructive criticism? http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88295 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88295 Nice flaming job there murphy..real cute following BLT's comment too. <br /> <br /> So, BLT you say this kind of stuff shouldn't be done: <em><strong>Of course you feel you can&nbsp;afford to be arrogant, demanding, bullying, and verbally abusive, because you're surrounded with folks who support your opinions and would not stand up to you no matter how crude, rude and abusive you became. -</strong></em>Do you consider that constructive criticism? Why can't we all just get along?&nbsp; In the last few day, it seems everyone is attacking each other, we didn't use to do this sort of thing.&nbsp; Are you all drunk? or is it something to do with the sun spots.&nbsp; Those of you that think you're over the others are in need of backing off, those of you with the big mouths, would you be so big face to face?&nbsp; Never know, we may all meet up some day, and just think how red your faces will be when you're called on it. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88300 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88300 Why can't we all just get along?&nbsp; In the last few day, it seems everyone is attacking each other, we didn't use to do this sort of thing.&nbsp; Are you all drunk? or is it something to do with the sun spots.&nbsp; Those of you that think you're over the others are in need of backing off, those of you with the big mouths, would you be so big face to face?&nbsp; Never know, we may all meet up some day, and just think how red your faces will be when you're called on it. <p>Trouble is, Anny, that &quot;all just get along&quot; has been perverted into &quot;shut up and let us ruin your country for you.&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp; That's the trouble I have with BLT's frequent calls for compromise.&nbsp; Fundamental damage has been done to this nation; I plan to see it set right before compromising further.</p> <p>I stand behind everything I've written on the board and have attended *BOTH* meetups.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88303 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88303 <p>Trouble is, Anny, that &quot;all just get along&quot; has been perverted into &quot;shut up and let us ruin your country for you.&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp; That's the trouble I have with BLT's frequent calls for compromise.&nbsp; Fundamental damage has been done to this nation; I plan to see it set right before compromising further.</p> <p>I stand behind everything I've written on the board and have attended *BOTH* meetups.</p> Anti, you can blow my cover, you can blow my mind, you can blow my arguments.&nbsp; But don't blow my margins.&nbsp; :)<br /> <br /> Repost of antis old comment:<br /> <br /> <div class="bloggreytext">posted by antiextremism on May 9, 2007 at 02:24 PM </div> <table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" class="blogcommentpicture"> <div class="blogcommentpicture"> </div> </td> <td valign="top"> <div class="blogcommentbody"> <p>Uh oh. Tom is saddling up on ya Doc. Can ya hear the drums beating???</p> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <br /> <img src="../../../file/picture/34956/1/0/" alt="http://people.bakersfield.com/file/picture/34956/1/0/" /> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88307 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88307 Anti, you can blow my cover, you can blow my mind, you can blow my arguments.&nbsp; But don't blow my margins.&nbsp; :)<br /> <br /> Repost of antis old comment:<br /> <br /> <div class="bloggreytext">posted by antiextremism on May 9, 2007 at 02:24 PM </div> <table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" class="blogcommentpicture"> <div class="blogcommentpicture"> </div> </td> <td valign="top"> <div class="blogcommentbody"> <p>Uh oh. Tom is saddling up on ya Doc. Can ya hear the drums beating???</p> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <br /> <img src="../../../file/picture/34956/1/0/" alt="http://people.bakersfield.com/file/picture/34956/1/0/" /> PossumMomma........LOL! http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88308 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88308 PossumMomma........LOL! Has anyone noticed that Mr. <font color="#ff0000">allRed</font> is AWOL?&nbsp; His comments at various places and his blog apparently are missing.&nbsp; Now...I know I'm new here...but I had him pegged quickly...and this is exactly a thread he'd love to be into the fray with.&nbsp; Where are you <font color="#ff0000">Ron</font>?&nbsp; That <font color="#ff0000">red</font> point of view is missed...and you need to be supporting your buddies on the other <font color="#ff0000">side of the isle</font> anyway. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88317 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88317 Has anyone noticed that Mr. <font color="#ff0000">allRed</font> is AWOL?&nbsp; His comments at various places and his blog apparently are missing.&nbsp; Now...I know I'm new here...but I had him pegged quickly...and this is exactly a thread he'd love to be into the fray with.&nbsp; Where are you <font color="#ff0000">Ron</font>?&nbsp; That <font color="#ff0000">red</font> point of view is missed...and you need to be supporting your buddies on the other <font color="#ff0000">side of the isle</font> anyway. Wow Sumo, I think your on to something..He got delete happy again..only this time he took everything down.. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88319 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88319 Wow Sumo, I think your on to something..He got delete happy again..only this time he took everything down.. Last <em>I</em> heard <font color="#ff0000">he</font> was on vacation up in Nor. Cal. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88344 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88344 Last <em>I</em> heard <font color="#ff0000">he</font> was on vacation up in Nor. Cal. Darnit!&nbsp; If people are going to have a blog...they need to be up and on it...and helping the discourse of their fellow politicos...not just leaving them in the lurch to us on the left.&nbsp; If people like him don't come back...we'll just have to fight amongst ourselves...and that won't be any good...because we already agree politically...so where does that leave us?&nbsp; B o r i n g!&nbsp; Okay...just kidding...bloggers can go and do what they want...no seriously...they can! http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88347 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88347 Darnit!&nbsp; If people are going to have a blog...they need to be up and on it...and helping the discourse of their fellow politicos...not just leaving them in the lurch to us on the left.&nbsp; If people like him don't come back...we'll just have to fight amongst ourselves...and that won't be any good...because we already agree politically...so where does that leave us?&nbsp; B o r i n g!&nbsp; Okay...just kidding...bloggers can go and do what they want...no seriously...they can! Mattloch..all his posts are gone..but I don't know when that happened..I just looked after Sumo mentioned she was pining away for <font color="#ff0000">Allred&nbsp; :P</font> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88352 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88352 Mattloch..all his posts are gone..but I don't know when that happened..I just looked after Sumo mentioned she was pining away for <font color="#ff0000">Allred&nbsp; :P</font> That WAS a rather large picture Tom, but uh...you <em>deserve</em> a large billboard...yeah that's the ticket. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88364 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88364 That WAS a rather large picture Tom, but uh...you <em>deserve</em> a large billboard...yeah that's the ticket. <p>You're all beak and no bite, Tom :)</p> <p>Dusty, I don't think you want to go down that road of quoting one another.&nbsp;&nbsp; You know what they say about those who live in glass houses.&nbsp; I think we both know where that road will end, and at this point, I have my eyes set on the high road.&nbsp; </p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88370 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88370 <p>You're all beak and no bite, Tom :)</p> <p>Dusty, I don't think you want to go down that road of quoting one another.&nbsp;&nbsp; You know what they say about those who live in glass houses.&nbsp; I think we both know where that road will end, and at this point, I have my eyes set on the high road.&nbsp; </p> <font size="1">Great one Mattloch~sometimes i think did anyone see what i just said?&nbsp; I try to respond~and when somethings &quot;hot&quot; ( a lot of posting)things can get out of hand..fairy tales,bible stories,any faith based work,sci fi~heck now days I am for anything that gets people to think!</font> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88374 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88374 <font size="1">Great one Mattloch~sometimes i think did anyone see what i just said?&nbsp; I try to respond~and when somethings &quot;hot&quot; ( a lot of posting)things can get out of hand..fairy tales,bible stories,any faith based work,sci fi~heck now days I am for anything that gets people to think!</font> BLT..don't condescend to me..I asked a specific question about a specific comment you made. You and ALLred have taken my comments out of context and posted them on your blogs ad nauseum..and now you get your knickers in a knot because I asked a question about a statement you made here on this thread? You always seem to think you take the high road, and you don't. I just showed you where you certainly didn't. I have never tried to paint myself as you have attempted to paint yourself here as being above the fray and never attacking me or anyone else you do not agree with or who's methods you don't like. If you don't like my brand of speech you can stay off my blog right? Thats the method that appears to work best instead of you talking down to me and attempting to paint a different picture than what actually happened that day. <br /> <br /> I have never put myself above others as you are attempting to do here by saying your taking the 'high road'. This must be a new trend for you since I just showed you where you did not take the high road Sir. You did not turn the other cheek, correct? Guess you could say you wallowed in the mud right along with me that day, right? http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88380 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88380 BLT..don't condescend to me..I asked a specific question about a specific comment you made. You and ALLred have taken my comments out of context and posted them on your blogs ad nauseum..and now you get your knickers in a knot because I asked a question about a statement you made here on this thread? You always seem to think you take the high road, and you don't. I just showed you where you certainly didn't. I have never tried to paint myself as you have attempted to paint yourself here as being above the fray and never attacking me or anyone else you do not agree with or who's methods you don't like. If you don't like my brand of speech you can stay off my blog right? Thats the method that appears to work best instead of you talking down to me and attempting to paint a different picture than what actually happened that day. <br /> <br /> I have never put myself above others as you are attempting to do here by saying your taking the 'high road'. This must be a new trend for you since I just showed you where you did not take the high road Sir. You did not turn the other cheek, correct? Guess you could say you wallowed in the mud right along with me that day, right? <strong>Murphyslaw</strong>, for the record I never said you were lying. I asked if you believed that your experience(s) could be translated into the universal truths you claimed they were. I'm not sure what &quot;laws&quot; would have been used to discourage us 30 years ago, but I'd like to think that I am as vocal socially as I am on these boards. If you're insulting me or anyone else for being well-read, or pay attention to things not strictly job-related, well I'll bite the bullet and take that criticism. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88381 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88381 <strong>Murphyslaw</strong>, for the record I never said you were lying. I asked if you believed that your experience(s) could be translated into the universal truths you claimed they were. I'm not sure what &quot;laws&quot; would have been used to discourage us 30 years ago, but I'd like to think that I am as vocal socially as I am on these boards. If you're insulting me or anyone else for being well-read, or pay attention to things not strictly job-related, well I'll bite the bullet and take that criticism. From you today on this thread BLT:<br /> <div class="bloggreytext">posted by <a href="../../../home/User/blognroll">blognroll</a> on May 9, 2007 at 10:45 AM </div> <table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" class="blogcommentpicture"> <div class="blogcommentpicture"> <a href="../../../home/User/blognroll"> <img width="80" height="57" src="../../../file/picture/25291/0/0/" alt="" /> </a> </div> </td> <td valign="top"> <div class="blogcommentbody"> <p>Yes, I do want you to call me on my BS, if, in fact it is BS, and I want you to call me out on my &quot;bashing.&quot;&nbsp; So, please give me an example of when and where I have personally attacked or&nbsp;bashed anybody at this site.&nbsp;&nbsp; Hardliner, you never fail to make me smile or laugh.&nbsp; And you, my friend (if I may take the liberty of calling you a friend)&nbsp;are a prime example of somebody here who knows how to disagree, and to disagree without making disparaging remarks about the person you disagree with.&nbsp; </p> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> I just did it..and now you get upset about it? Hypocrite. <br /> <br /> And another one:<br /> <div class="bloggreytext">posted by <a href="../../../home/User/blognroll">blognroll</a> on May 9, 2007 at 11:23 AM </div> <table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" class="blogcommentpicture"> <div class="blogcommentpicture"> <a href="../../../home/User/blognroll"> <img width="80" height="57" src="../../../file/picture/25291/0/0/" alt="" /> </a> </div> </td> <td valign="top"> <div class="blogcommentbody"> <p>GrpThink, you are the&nbsp;pot calling the kettle black.&nbsp; I'd invite anybody to review the recent heated exchange between dusty and myself.&nbsp; You will find no personal attacks whatsoever launched by me towards dusty.&nbsp; Dusty was offended, not by a personal attack, but by a general comment that disrupted the thread she posted.&nbsp; She was rightfully offended, as I was out of line, and I apologized again and again for offending her.&nbsp;</p> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> Who are you to say what upset me? Your calling me a schoolyard bully was where I pulled the gloves off Sir on that thread..but you ignore that part of your comments and focus on the original comment which I addressed as I saw fit. <br /> <br /> I have sat here all day reading this thread and laughing at your view of yourself and others. I figured it was time for me to put it out there since you were speaking for me lol..and then had the audacity to demand that someone show you where you talked down to someone, which you denied every doing. <br /> <br /> Call it like it is BLT..your no better or worse than anyone else here. You get down and dirty when you feel provoked as the rest of us do. Its the nature of the beast called blogging. <br /> <br /> Have a good evening BLT. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88394 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88394 From you today on this thread BLT:<br /> <div class="bloggreytext">posted by <a href="../../../home/User/blognroll">blognroll</a> on May 9, 2007 at 10:45 AM </div> <table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" class="blogcommentpicture"> <div class="blogcommentpicture"> <a href="../../../home/User/blognroll"> <img width="80" height="57" src="../../../file/picture/25291/0/0/" alt="" /> </a> </div> </td> <td valign="top"> <div class="blogcommentbody"> <p>Yes, I do want you to call me on my BS, if, in fact it is BS, and I want you to call me out on my &quot;bashing.&quot;&nbsp; So, please give me an example of when and where I have personally attacked or&nbsp;bashed anybody at this site.&nbsp;&nbsp; Hardliner, you never fail to make me smile or laugh.&nbsp; And you, my friend (if I may take the liberty of calling you a friend)&nbsp;are a prime example of somebody here who knows how to disagree, and to disagree without making disparaging remarks about the person you disagree with.&nbsp; </p> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> I just did it..and now you get upset about it? Hypocrite. <br /> <br /> And another one:<br /> <div class="bloggreytext">posted by <a href="../../../home/User/blognroll">blognroll</a> on May 9, 2007 at 11:23 AM </div> <table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" class="blogcommentpicture"> <div class="blogcommentpicture"> <a href="../../../home/User/blognroll"> <img width="80" height="57" src="../../../file/picture/25291/0/0/" alt="" /> </a> </div> </td> <td valign="top"> <div class="blogcommentbody"> <p>GrpThink, you are the&nbsp;pot calling the kettle black.&nbsp; I'd invite anybody to review the recent heated exchange between dusty and myself.&nbsp; You will find no personal attacks whatsoever launched by me towards dusty.&nbsp; Dusty was offended, not by a personal attack, but by a general comment that disrupted the thread she posted.&nbsp; She was rightfully offended, as I was out of line, and I apologized again and again for offending her.&nbsp;</p> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> Who are you to say what upset me? Your calling me a schoolyard bully was where I pulled the gloves off Sir on that thread..but you ignore that part of your comments and focus on the original comment which I addressed as I saw fit. <br /> <br /> I have sat here all day reading this thread and laughing at your view of yourself and others. I figured it was time for me to put it out there since you were speaking for me lol..and then had the audacity to demand that someone show you where you talked down to someone, which you denied every doing. <br /> <br /> Call it like it is BLT..your no better or worse than anyone else here. You get down and dirty when you feel provoked as the rest of us do. Its the nature of the beast called blogging. <br /> <br /> Have a good evening BLT. Any discussion between you and me, dusty, that involves finger-pointing, is not a discussion I care to involve myself with.&nbsp; I don't want to waste any more energy pointing fingers at you, and I don't want to waste anymore energy defending myself against you pointing fingers at me.&nbsp; <br /> <br /> I'm for burying the hachet and moving on.&nbsp; If that makes me condescending, then so be it.&nbsp; I'll wear the label.&nbsp; http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88435 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88435 Any discussion between you and me, dusty, that involves finger-pointing, is not a discussion I care to involve myself with.&nbsp; I don't want to waste any more energy pointing fingers at you, and I don't want to waste anymore energy defending myself against you pointing fingers at me.&nbsp; <br /> <br /> I'm for burying the hachet and moving on.&nbsp; If that makes me condescending, then so be it.&nbsp; I'll wear the label.&nbsp; <p>I was addicted to blogging for awhile.&nbsp; That's when the BLT's of the world really got under my skin.</p> <p>When I learn to walk away from the blogs for days at a time I realized how petty the arguments actually are.</p> <p>Now, Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88436 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88436 <p>I was addicted to blogging for awhile.&nbsp; That's when the BLT's of the world really got under my skin.</p> <p>When I learn to walk away from the blogs for days at a time I realized how petty the arguments actually are.</p> <p>Now, Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.</p> <p>BTW</p> <p>Back in the day when I was addicted, I blogged under the following names</p> <p>MyLefteFoot&nbsp; (way left)</p> <p>Elizabeth Bennett (a real bitch)</p> <p>Judge Judy (a bigger bitch)</p> <p>But, who gives a rats behind.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88439 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88439 <p>BTW</p> <p>Back in the day when I was addicted, I blogged under the following names</p> <p>MyLefteFoot&nbsp; (way left)</p> <p>Elizabeth Bennett (a real bitch)</p> <p>Judge Judy (a bigger bitch)</p> <p>But, who gives a rats behind.</p> I'm glad you overcame your addiction, Audrey.&nbsp; And I'm glad you came out of the closet with your addiction.&nbsp; I too am a blogaholic, and I'm probably not nearly as far along as you are in my recovery.&nbsp; And it's a little embarrassing since, as a shrink, I'm supposed to have it all together, at least in the eyes of the public.&nbsp; Sometimes the BLTs of this world get under my skin too.&nbsp; http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88452 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88452 I'm glad you overcame your addiction, Audrey.&nbsp; And I'm glad you came out of the closet with your addiction.&nbsp; I too am a blogaholic, and I'm probably not nearly as far along as you are in my recovery.&nbsp; And it's a little embarrassing since, as a shrink, I'm supposed to have it all together, at least in the eyes of the public.&nbsp; Sometimes the BLTs of this world get under my skin too.&nbsp; BLT...you changed your post just after Dusty's...why?&nbsp; You completely changed it Dude... http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88455 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88455 BLT...you changed your post just after Dusty's...why?&nbsp; You completely changed it Dude... AuderyB...you like Jane Austen eh?&nbsp; I really like the latest movie made of Pride and Prejudice...the music is beautiful too. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88456 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88456 AuderyB...you like Jane Austen eh?&nbsp; I really like the latest movie made of Pride and Prejudice...the music is beautiful too. <p>BlogNroll</p> <p>I got tired of the same topics being hashed out over and over and over.&nbsp; No one's opinion was ever changed and the only result of the&nbsp;arguing was hurt feelings and anger. </p> <p>I'd love to blog in a forum where all ideas and opinions&nbsp;we're &nbsp;treated with equal respect.&nbsp;&nbsp; Where everyone understands that an opinion is just that&nbsp; ....someone's conclusion of what &quot;truth&quot; &nbsp;is.&nbsp;&nbsp;It occurred to me one day that no one has&nbsp;a monoply on the truth.&nbsp; </p> <p>We could all learn so much more without &nbsp;the bickering.&nbsp; Until then, I'll just pop in occasionally to &quot;keep my hand in&quot;.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88457 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/TomW/9067/#c_88457 <p>BlogNroll</p> <p>I got tired of the