http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433 Oh, no!!!! Not another health care rant from the loony liberal!!!!! No, this is not my rant. This was on my e-mail today from AARP, not a liberal organization by any stretch. Given that tonight will have the President speaking about health care reform while ignorant protestors swamp a local television studio I thought that this AARP report might be useful to those who still have a rational thinking process, and are not part of the health care reform choir. 8 Myths About Health Care Reform And why we can't afford to believe them anymore By Karen Cheney, July &amp; August 2009 Americans spend more on health care every year than we do educating our children, building roads, even feeding ourselves&mdash;an estimated $2.6 trillion in 2009, or around $8,300 per person. Forty-five million Americans have no health insurance whatsoever. These staggering figures are at the heart of the current debate over health care reform: the need to control costs while providing coverage for all. As John Lumpkin, M.D., M.P.H., director of the Health Care Group for the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, says, &quot;There is enough evidence that it is now time to do something and to do the right thing.&quot; The key is to focus on the facts&mdash;and to dispel, once and for all, the myths that block our progress. Myth 1: &quot;Health reform won't benefit people like me, who have insurance.&quot; Just because you have health insurance today doesn't mean you'll have it tomorrow. According to the National Coalition on Healthcare, nearly 266,000 companies dropped their employees' health care coverage from 2000 to 2005. &quot;People with insurance have a tremendous stake, because their insurance is at risk,&quot; says Judy Feder, a professor of public policy at Georgetown University and a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, a Washington, D.C.-based think tank. What's more, in recent years the average employee health insurance premium rose nearly eight times faster than income. &quot;Everyone is paying for health increases in some way, and it's unsustainable for everyone,&quot; says Stephanie Cathcart, spokesperson for the National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB). &quot;Reform will benefit everyone as long as it addresses costs.&quot; Myth 2: &quot;The boomers will bankrupt Medicare.&quot; If you're looking to blame the rise in health care costs on an aging population, you'll have to look elsewhere. The growing ranks of the elderly are projected to account for just 0.4 percent of the future growth in health care costs, says Paul Ginsburg, president of the Center for Studying Health System Change. So why are health care costs skyrocketing? Ginsburg and others point to all those fancy medical technologies we now rely on (think MRIs and CT scans), as well as our fee-for-service payment system, in which doctors are paid by how many patients they see and how many treatments they prescribe, rather than by the quality of care they provide. Some experts say this fee-for-service payment system encourages overtreatment (see &quot;Why Does Health Care Cost So Much?&quot; from the July-August 2008 issue of AARP The Magazine). Myth 3: &quot;Reforming our health care system will cost us more.&quot; Think of health care reform as if it's an Energy Star appliance. Yes, it costs more to replace your old energy-guzzling refrigerator with a new one, but over time the savings can be substantial. The Commonwealth Fund, a New York City-based foundation that supports research on health care practice and policy, estimates that health care reform will cost roughly $600 billion to implement but by 2020 could save us approximately $3 trillion. Myth 4: &quot;My access to quality health care will decline.&quot; Just because you have access to lots of doctors who prescribe lots of treatments doesn't mean you're getting good care. In fact, researchers at Dartmouth College have found that patients who receive more care actually fare worse than those who receive less care. In one particularly egregious example, heart attack patients in Los Angeles spent more days in the hospital and underwent more tests and procedures than heart attack patients in Salt Lake City, yet the patients in L.A. died at a higher rate than those in Salt Lake City. (Medicare also paid $30,000 for the L.A. patients' care, versus $23,000 for the care of the patients with better outcomes in Salt Lake City.) Myth 5: &quot;I won't be able to visit my favorite doctor.&quot; Mention health reform and immediately people worry that they will have fewer options&mdash;in doctors, treatments, and diagnostic testing. The concern comes largely during discussions of comparative effectiveness research (CER): research on which treatments work and which don't. But 18 organizations in a broad coalition, including AARP, NFIB, Consumers Union, and Families USA, support CER&mdash;and believe that far from limiting choices, it will instead prevent errors and give physicians the information they need to practice better medicine. A good example: Doctors routinely prescribe newer and more expensive medications for high blood pressure when studies show that older medications work just as well, if not better. &quot;There is a tremendous value in new technology, but in our health care system we don't weigh whether these treatments work,&quot; says Feder. &quot;Expensive treatments replace less expensive ones for no reason.&quot; Myth 6: &quot;The uninsured actually do have access to good care&mdash;in the emergency room.&quot; It's true that the United States has an open-door policy for those who seek emergency care, but &quot;emergency room care doesn't help you get the right information to prevent a condition or give you help managing it,&quot; says Maria Ghazal, director of public policy for Business Roundtable, an association of CEOs at major U.S. companies. Forty-one percent of the uninsured have no access to preventive care, so when they do go to the ER, &quot;they are most likely going in at a time when their illness has progressed significantly and costs more to treat,&quot; says Lumpkin. Hospitals have no way to recoup the costs of treating the uninsured, so they naturally pass on some of those costs to their insured patients. Myth 7: &quot;We can't afford to tackle this problem now.&quot; We may be in the middle of a recession, but as Robert Zirkelbach, spokesperson for America's Health Insurance Plans, says, &quot;the most expensive thing we can do is nothing at all.&quot; If we do nothing, the Congressional Budget Office projects that our annual health costs will soar to about $13,000 per person in 2017, while the number of uninsured will climb to 54 million by 2019. Already more than half of Americans say they have cut back on health care in the past year due to cost concerns. Roughly one in four of us say we put off care we needed, and one in five of us didn't fill a prescription. Clearly, the urgency is greater now than ever before. Myth 8: &quot;We'll end up with socialized medicine.&quot; Some experts favor a single-payer system similar to Medicare or the health program offered to federal-government employees. Yet all the proposals being discussed today would build on our current system, Feder says&mdash;which means that private insurers and the government are both likely to play roles. Says Lumpkin: &quot;There are many ways to solve our health care problem, but we will come up with a uniquely American solution, and that solution will be a mixed public and private solution.&quot; Karen Cheney is a Philadelphia-based writer who specializes in money and health care issues. Oh, no!!!! Not another health care rant from the loony liberal!!!!! No, this is not my rant. This was on my e-mail today from AARP, not a liberal organization by any stretch. Given that tonight will have the President speaking about health care reform while ignorant protestors swamp a local television studio I thought that this AARP report might be useful to those who still have a rational thinking process, and are not part of the health care reform choir. 8 Myths About Health Care Reform And why we can't afford to believe them anymore By Karen Cheney, July &amp; August 2009 Americans spend more on health care every year than we do educating our children, building roads, even feeding ourselves&mdash;an estimated $2.6 trillion in 2009, or around $8,300 per person. Forty-five million Americans have no health insurance whatsoever. These staggering figures are at the heart of the current debate over health care reform: the need to control costs while providing coverage for all. As John Lumpkin, M.D., M.P.H., director of the Health Care Group for the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, says, &quot;There is enough evidence that it is now time to do something and to do the right thing.&quot; The key is to focus on the facts&mdash;and to dispel, once and for all, the myths that block our progress. Myth 1: &quot;Health reform won't benefit people like me, who have insurance.&quot; Just because you have health insurance today doesn't mean you'll have it tomorrow. According to the National Coalition on Healthcare, nearly 266,000 companies dropped their employees' health care coverage from 2000 to 2005. &quot;People with insurance have a tremendous stake, because their insurance is at risk,&quot; says Judy Feder, a professor of public policy at Georgetown University and a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, a Washington, D.C.-based think tank. What's more, in recent years the average employee health insurance premium rose nearly eight times faster than income. &quot;Everyone is paying for health increases in some way, and it's unsustainable for everyone,&quot; says Stephanie Cathcart, spokesperson for the National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB). &quot;Reform will benefit everyone as long as it addresses costs.&quot; Myth 2: &quot;The boomers will bankrupt Medicare.&quot; If you're looking to blame the rise in health care costs on an aging population, you'll have to look elsewhere. The growing ranks of the elderly are projected to account for just 0.4 percent of the future growth in health care costs, says Paul Ginsburg, president of the Center for Studying Health System Change. So why are health care costs skyrocketing? Ginsburg and others point to all those fancy medical technologies we now rely on (think MRIs and CT scans), as well as our fee-for-service payment system, in which doctors are paid by how many patients they see and how many treatments they prescribe, rather than by the quality of care they provide. Some experts say this fee-for-service payment system encourages overtreatment (see &quot;Why Does Health Care Cost So Much?&quot; from the July-August 2008 issue of AARP The Magazine). Myth 3: &quot;Reforming our health care system will cost us more.&quot; Think of health care reform as if it's an Energy Star appliance. Yes, it costs more to replace your old energy-guzzling refrigerator with a new one, but over time the savings can be substantial. The Commonwealth Fund, a New York City-based foundation that supports research on health care practice and policy, estimates that health care reform will cost roughly $600 billion to implement but by 2020 could save us approximately $3 trillion. Myth 4: &quot;My access to quality health care will decline.&quot; Just because you have access to lots of doctors who prescribe lots of treatments doesn't mean you're getting good care. In fact, researchers at Dartmouth College have found that patients who receive more care actually fare worse than those who receive less care. In one particularly egregious example, heart attack patients in Los Angeles spent more days in the hospital and underwent more tests and procedures than heart attack patients in Salt Lake City, yet the patients in L.A. died at a higher rate than those in Salt Lake City. (Medicare also paid $30,000 for the L.A. patients' care, versus $23,000 for the care of the patients with better outcomes in Salt Lake City.) Myth 5: &quot;I won't be able to visit my favorite doctor.&quot; Mention health reform and immediately people worry that they will have fewer options&mdash;in doctors, treatments, and diagnostic testing. The concern comes largely during discussions of comparative effectiveness research (CER): research on which treatments work and which don't. But 18 organizations in a broad coalition, including AARP, NFIB, Consumers Union, and Families USA, support CER&mdash;and believe that far from limiting choices, it will instead prevent errors and give physicians the information they need to practice better medicine. A good example: Doctors routinely prescribe newer and more expensive medications for high blood pressure when studies show that older medications work just as well, if not better. &quot;There is a tremendous value in new technology, but in our health care system we don't weigh whether these treatments work,&quot; says Feder. &quot;Expensive treatments replace less expensive ones for no reason.&quot; Myth 6: &quot;The uninsured actually do have access to good care&mdash;in the emergency room.&quot; It's true that the United States has an open-door policy for those who seek emergency care, but &quot;emergency room care doesn't help you get the right information to prevent a condition or give you help managing it,&quot; says Maria Ghazal, director of public policy for Business Roundtable, an association of CEOs at major U.S. companies. Forty-one percent of the uninsured have no access to preventive care, so when they do go to the ER, &quot;they are most likely going in at a time when their illness has progressed significantly and costs more to treat,&quot; says Lumpkin. Hospitals have no way to recoup the costs of treating the uninsured, so they naturally pass on some of those costs to their insured patients. Myth 7: &quot;We can't afford to tackle this problem now.&quot; We may be in the middle of a recession, but as Robert Zirkelbach, spokesperson for America's Health Insurance Plans, says, &quot;the most expensive thing we can do is nothing at all.&quot; If we do nothing, the Congressional Budget Office projects that our annual health costs will soar to about $13,000 per person in 2017, while the number of uninsured will climb to 54 million by 2019. Already more than half of Americans say they have cut back on health care in the past year due to cost concerns. Roughly one in four of us say we put off care we needed, and one in five of us didn't fill a prescription. Clearly, the urgency is greater now than ever before. Myth 8: &quot;We'll end up with socialized medicine.&quot; Some experts favor a single-payer system similar to Medicare or the health program offered to federal-government employees. Yet all the proposals being discussed today would build on our current system, Feder says&mdash;which means that private insurers and the government are both likely to play roles. Says Lumpkin: &quot;There are many ways to solve our health care problem, but we will come up with a uniquely American solution, and that solution will be a mixed public and private solution.&quot; Karen Cheney is a Philadelphia-based writer who specializes in money and health care issues. en-us Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:45:08 PDT <p>I thought these comments were interesting.</p> <p><a href="http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2277710/posts#comment">freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2277710/posts#comment</a></p> <p>I know, I&nbsp;know. &quot;Consider the source ... &nbsp;&quot;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414674 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414674 <p>I thought these comments were interesting.</p> <p><a href="http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2277710/posts#comment">freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2277710/posts#comment</a></p> <p>I know, I&nbsp;know. &quot;Consider the source ... &nbsp;&quot;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>We've seen almost all those points be brought up by certain posters in the other health care threads. Which makes me wonder, which conservative &quot;entertainers&quot; are pounding the pavement to convince people these myths are true?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414707 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414707 <p>We've seen almost all those points be brought up by certain posters in the other health care threads. Which makes me wonder, which conservative &quot;entertainers&quot; are pounding the pavement to convince people these myths are true?</p> <p>Thanks for this, Adam.&nbsp; Good roundup.</p> <p>.</p> <p><em>I thought these comments were interesting.</em></p> <p>In the sense of &quot;completely devoid of rational thought.&quot;&nbsp;</p> <p>Comparing AARP to al Qaeda and wistfully saying you can't shoot AARP members?&nbsp; Claiming that the President of the United States is &quot;a useless big-eared chimp&quot;?&nbsp; (Didn't they hear Shrub's no longer in office?)</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414710 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414710 <p>Thanks for this, Adam.&nbsp; Good roundup.</p> <p>.</p> <p><em>I thought these comments were interesting.</em></p> <p>In the sense of &quot;completely devoid of rational thought.&quot;&nbsp;</p> <p>Comparing AARP to al Qaeda and wistfully saying you can't shoot AARP members?&nbsp; Claiming that the President of the United States is &quot;a useless big-eared chimp&quot;?&nbsp; (Didn't they hear Shrub's no longer in office?)</p> <p>AARP has been, and continues to be, one of the <a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n17_v47/ai_17374445/">most liberal organizations </a>in the country.</p> <p>What's the hurry anyway?&nbsp; Why doesn't the reformed smoker who still smokes show us that he can fix veterans health care and Indian Reservation health care first?&nbsp; He has yet to show how he will honestly pay for it all.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414719 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414719 <p>AARP has been, and continues to be, one of the <a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n17_v47/ai_17374445/">most liberal organizations </a>in the country.</p> <p>What's the hurry anyway?&nbsp; Why doesn't the reformed smoker who still smokes show us that he can fix veterans health care and Indian Reservation health care first?&nbsp; He has yet to show how he will honestly pay for it all.</p> <p><em>&nbsp;What's the hurry anyway?&nbsp; Why doesn't the reformed smoker who still smokes show us that he can fix veterans health care and Indian Reservation health care first?</em></p> <p>They're not in as much need of reform as the private sector is.&nbsp; As to paying for it, we're paying for it *NOW*.&nbsp; More and more and more every month.&nbsp; The total cost, the CBO said, is less than Shrub paid his cronies in tax breaks, and we got *NUTTIN* out of that.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414720 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414720 <p><em>&nbsp;What's the hurry anyway?&nbsp; Why doesn't the reformed smoker who still smokes show us that he can fix veterans health care and Indian Reservation health care first?</em></p> <p>They're not in as much need of reform as the private sector is.&nbsp; As to paying for it, we're paying for it *NOW*.&nbsp; More and more and more every month.&nbsp; The total cost, the CBO said, is less than Shrub paid his cronies in tax breaks, and we got *NUTTIN* out of that.</p> <p>Vanity, the comments from your link are really sad, and extremely xenophobic. There is not one fact that is given to rebut any of the information AARP provided. The only thing the commentors had to say was what a commie-pinko organization AARP was. Those comments are pathetic.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Here is a very recent executive summary from EPI on who the uninsured are, and how that potentially affects the cost numbers being assumed under the most dire of scenarios.</p> <p><strong>Former CBO Director and Member of the President's Council of Economic Advisors' Authors New Report Titled &quot;Who are the Uninsured?&quot;</strong></p> <p><location><strong>WASHINGTON</strong></location><strong>, </strong><chron><strong>June 23</strong></chron><strong> /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Today the Employment Policies Institute (EPI) released a new study which shows that the widely employed estimate of 47 million uninsured Americans is a misleading representation of the problem. The study, authored by Drs. </strong> <person><strong>June and David O'Neill</strong></person> <strong> of </strong><org><strong>Baruch College</strong></org><strong> and </strong><org><strong>City University of New York</strong></org><strong>, shows that more than 43 percent, or 18 million, of uninsured Americans ages 18-64 could likely afford health coverage and are actually &quot;voluntarily uninsured.&quot; </strong> <person><strong>June O'Neill</strong></person> <strong> served as Director of the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) from 1995-1999.</strong></p> <p><strong>Current policy proposals dramatically overestimate the cost of providing affordable health insurance for those Americans who currently cannot afford coverage due to a lack of understanding of who the involuntarily uninsured population is, why they lack coverage, and the amount of health care resources that they currently access. With greater understanding and recognition of the diversity within the uninsured population, the goal of providing affordable health insurance to all Americans should be possible with solutions that cost far less than the CBO's estimated figure of </strong><money><strong>$1.6 trillion</strong></money><strong> for implementing recent congressional proposals that would only address two-thirds of the problem.</strong></p> <p><strong>&quot;We urge policymakers not to rush the healthcare debate. This study shows that we need to better understand American's uninsured population and the factors affecting both coverage and access to care,&quot; said study author Dr. O'Neill. &quot;This new information about the current uninsured population will increase policymakers' power to target those truly 'at risk,' provide the best coverage and health care access options for each population and decrease the cost of covering the uninsured.&quot; </strong></p> <p>.....................................................................................................................................................................................................</p> <p><strong>The uninsured population also varies dramatically from state to state. For example, thirty percent of </strong><location><strong>Texas</strong></location><strong> residents are uninsured, compared to 18 percent of </strong><location><strong>New York</strong></location><strong> and 13 percent of D.C. residents. Three states (</strong><location><strong>Texas</strong></location><strong>, </strong><location><strong>Florida</strong></location><strong> and </strong><location><strong>California</strong></location><strong>) make up a third of the uninsured population. </strong></p> <p>.....................................................................................................................................................................................................</p> <p>Here is a link to the <a href="http://covertheuninsured.org/content/study-shows-more-people-go-without-health-coverage">Robert Wood Johnson Foundation</a> study on the uninsured.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414721 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414721 <p>Vanity, the comments from your link are really sad, and extremely xenophobic. There is not one fact that is given to rebut any of the information AARP provided. The only thing the commentors had to say was what a commie-pinko organization AARP was. Those comments are pathetic.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Here is a very recent executive summary from EPI on who the uninsured are, and how that potentially affects the cost numbers being assumed under the most dire of scenarios.</p> <p><strong>Former CBO Director and Member of the President's Council of Economic Advisors' Authors New Report Titled &quot;Who are the Uninsured?&quot;</strong></p> <p><location><strong>WASHINGTON</strong></location><strong>, </strong><chron><strong>June 23</strong></chron><strong> /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Today the Employment Policies Institute (EPI) released a new study which shows that the widely employed estimate of 47 million uninsured Americans is a misleading representation of the problem. The study, authored by Drs. </strong> <person><strong>June and David O'Neill</strong></person> <strong> of </strong><org><strong>Baruch College</strong></org><strong> and </strong><org><strong>City University of New York</strong></org><strong>, shows that more than 43 percent, or 18 million, of uninsured Americans ages 18-64 could likely afford health coverage and are actually &quot;voluntarily uninsured.&quot; </strong> <person><strong>June O'Neill</strong></person> <strong> served as Director of the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) from 1995-1999.</strong></p> <p><strong>Current policy proposals dramatically overestimate the cost of providing affordable health insurance for those Americans who currently cannot afford coverage due to a lack of understanding of who the involuntarily uninsured population is, why they lack coverage, and the amount of health care resources that they currently access. With greater understanding and recognition of the diversity within the uninsured population, the goal of providing affordable health insurance to all Americans should be possible with solutions that cost far less than the CBO's estimated figure of </strong><money><strong>$1.6 trillion</strong></money><strong> for implementing recent congressional proposals that would only address two-thirds of the problem.</strong></p> <p><strong>&quot;We urge policymakers not to rush the healthcare debate. This study shows that we need to better understand American's uninsured population and the factors affecting both coverage and access to care,&quot; said study author Dr. O'Neill. &quot;This new information about the current uninsured population will increase policymakers' power to target those truly 'at risk,' provide the best coverage and health care access options for each population and decrease the cost of covering the uninsured.&quot; </strong></p> <p>.....................................................................................................................................................................................................</p> <p><strong>The uninsured population also varies dramatically from state to state. For example, thirty percent of </strong><location><strong>Texas</strong></location><strong> residents are uninsured, compared to 18 percent of </strong><location><strong>New York</strong></location><strong> and 13 percent of D.C. residents. Three states (</strong><location><strong>Texas</strong></location><strong>, </strong><location><strong>Florida</strong></location><strong> and </strong><location><strong>California</strong></location><strong>) make up a third of the uninsured population. </strong></p> <p>.....................................................................................................................................................................................................</p> <p>Here is a link to the <a href="http://covertheuninsured.org/content/study-shows-more-people-go-without-health-coverage">Robert Wood Johnson Foundation</a> study on the uninsured.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>adampayne, I said I found those comments &quot;interesting&quot; and even acknowledged they were posted on an extremely biased blog. Nothing more, nothing less. Just a snapshot of how others felt about the article.&nbsp;</p> <p>I have a horse in this race, as you might recall. I'm extremely pissed off at Blue Cross and if I can find the energy and motivation to get my papers in order amidst the chaos that has enveloped my life, a lawsuit will be filed.&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414728 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414728 <p>adampayne, I said I found those comments &quot;interesting&quot; and even acknowledged they were posted on an extremely biased blog. Nothing more, nothing less. Just a snapshot of how others felt about the article.&nbsp;</p> <p>I have a horse in this race, as you might recall. I'm extremely pissed off at Blue Cross and if I can find the energy and motivation to get my papers in order amidst the chaos that has enveloped my life, a lawsuit will be filed.&nbsp;</p> <p>Meow, Random. Whatever.</p> <p>And Shwaine, you guys need to get past the fantasy that the conservative &quot;entertainers&quot; are programming brains.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414731 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414731 <p>Meow, Random. Whatever.</p> <p>And Shwaine, you guys need to get past the fantasy that the conservative &quot;entertainers&quot; are programming brains.</p> <p>Supposing the AARP IS a Liberal foil, secretly stumping for causes whether or not they benefit the elderly, what about the 8 myths posted? Do the detractors have a response to the content of the post?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414733 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414733 <p>Supposing the AARP IS a Liberal foil, secretly stumping for causes whether or not they benefit the elderly, what about the 8 myths posted? Do the detractors have a response to the content of the post?</p> <p><strong>&quot;They're not in as much need of reform as the private sector is.&quot;</strong></p> <p>Maybe you were in Argentina or some place when I posted this before, RF, but <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/14/AR2009061400903.html?hpid=sec-health?hpid=sec-health">this report </a>seems to disagree with your statement.&nbsp; I'm not sure how you judge needs, but I think little Indian girl's dying from lack of proper medical care is a bigger need than changing mine around.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414734 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414734 <p><strong>&quot;They're not in as much need of reform as the private sector is.&quot;</strong></p> <p>Maybe you were in Argentina or some place when I posted this before, RF, but <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/14/AR2009061400903.html?hpid=sec-health?hpid=sec-health">this report </a>seems to disagree with your statement.&nbsp; I'm not sure how you judge needs, but I think little Indian girl's dying from lack of proper medical care is a bigger need than changing mine around.</p> <p>Once my dad stops repeating Rush, Inga and other entertainers verbatim, then I'll get over that particular &quot;fantasy&quot;. </p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414735 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414735 <p>Once my dad stops repeating Rush, Inga and other entertainers verbatim, then I'll get over that particular &quot;fantasy&quot;. </p> <p>Well, then keep it in the family and don't paint with such a broad brush to include ALL conservatives. You usually are pretty cool about not generalizing.&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414740 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414740 <p>Well, then keep it in the family and don't paint with such a broad brush to include ALL conservatives. You usually are pretty cool about not generalizing.&nbsp;</p> <p>vanityfair: in a thread in which you take up the (righteous) cause about being careful with generalizations, you include the phrase &quot;you guys need to get over...&quot;</p> <p>Unless I&nbsp;missed something, isn't that a generalization? A generalization, in fact, as egregious as the one you are complaining about?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414745 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414745 <p>vanityfair: in a thread in which you take up the (righteous) cause about being careful with generalizations, you include the phrase &quot;you guys need to get over...&quot;</p> <p>Unless I&nbsp;missed something, isn't that a generalization? A generalization, in fact, as egregious as the one you are complaining about?</p> <p>I never said all conservatives believed the entertainers, just wondering which entertainers are pushing it because I personally know conservatives who buy their tripe hook, line and sinker. And facts like this article will rarely counteract the emotional ploys the entertainers employ. Facts combined with pointing out the ploys on the other hand are more likely to work.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414748 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414748 <p>I never said all conservatives believed the entertainers, just wondering which entertainers are pushing it because I personally know conservatives who buy their tripe hook, line and sinker. And facts like this article will rarely counteract the emotional ploys the entertainers employ. Facts combined with pointing out the ploys on the other hand are more likely to work.</p> <p>this is your most interesting post....oh yeah you copied it ......</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414749 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414749 <p>this is your most interesting post....oh yeah you copied it ......</p> <p><strong>&nbsp;In fact, researchers at Dartmouth College have found that patients who receive more care actually fare worse than those who receive less care.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </strong></p> <p>And Obamacare will be less care.&nbsp; And if you're old, it'll be even less (how else to explain the 0.4% increase from old people).&nbsp; Big Brother will do cost benefit analysis.&nbsp; Example: Your surgery/treatment will cost x dollars and you're 60 years old.&nbsp; Nope.&nbsp; The payout with your life expectancy and the future tax contributions you will make will not make it. Here's some pain killers, make yourself comfortable.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>With trillion dollar deficits, rationing will be the norm.</p> <p>Except for the rich and politically connected.&nbsp; &nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414761 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414761 <p><strong>&nbsp;In fact, researchers at Dartmouth College have found that patients who receive more care actually fare worse than those who receive less care.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </strong></p> <p>And Obamacare will be less care.&nbsp; And if you're old, it'll be even less (how else to explain the 0.4% increase from old people).&nbsp; Big Brother will do cost benefit analysis.&nbsp; Example: Your surgery/treatment will cost x dollars and you're 60 years old.&nbsp; Nope.&nbsp; The payout with your life expectancy and the future tax contributions you will make will not make it. Here's some pain killers, make yourself comfortable.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>With trillion dollar deficits, rationing will be the norm.</p> <p>Except for the rich and politically connected.&nbsp; &nbsp;</p> <p>Okay, dirtyshirt, I can be more specific. When I addressed &quot;you guys&quot; I meant ProgressivePete, tkozy, randomfactor, TSM, and the latest version of TrickyNicky now known as njallssaga. And pretty much anyone else who constantly whines about talk show hosts. I didn't address or mention any political party or ideology.&nbsp;</p> <p>Shwaine, I see your point.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414774 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414774 <p>Okay, dirtyshirt, I can be more specific. When I addressed &quot;you guys&quot; I meant ProgressivePete, tkozy, randomfactor, TSM, and the latest version of TrickyNicky now known as njallssaga. And pretty much anyone else who constantly whines about talk show hosts. I didn't address or mention any political party or ideology.&nbsp;</p> <p>Shwaine, I see your point.</p> <p>&quot;And Obamacare will be less care.&nbsp; And if you're old, it'll be even less (how else to explain the 0.4% increase from old people).&nbsp; Big Brother will do cost benefit analysis.&nbsp; Example: Your surgery/treatment will cost x dollars and you're 60 years old.&nbsp; Nope.&nbsp; The payout with your life expectancy and the future tax contributions you will make will not make it. Here's some pain killers, make yourself comfortable. &nbsp;&quot;</p> <p>drliftncrude:&nbsp;if I shared your fantasies and abhorrence for reading, I think I would be a conservative like you.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414776 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414776 <p>&quot;And Obamacare will be less care.&nbsp; And if you're old, it'll be even less (how else to explain the 0.4% increase from old people).&nbsp; Big Brother will do cost benefit analysis.&nbsp; Example: Your surgery/treatment will cost x dollars and you're 60 years old.&nbsp; Nope.&nbsp; The payout with your life expectancy and the future tax contributions you will make will not make it. Here's some pain killers, make yourself comfortable. &nbsp;&quot;</p> <p>drliftncrude:&nbsp;if I shared your fantasies and abhorrence for reading, I think I would be a conservative like you.</p> <p>If I were posting a blog about the <a href="http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/dirtyshirt/46307">importance of the first amendment </a>while cowardly blocking people from commenting, I'd probably be a liberal like you.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414785 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414785 <p>If I were posting a blog about the <a href="http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/dirtyshirt/46307">importance of the first amendment </a>while cowardly blocking people from commenting, I'd probably be a liberal like you.</p> <p>I wonder how many of the opponents of health care are currently spending a minimum of 1/4-1/3+ of their monthly gross income on medical bills above and beyond their premiums.&nbsp; How many have been bankrupted by medical bills?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I'm sure that you would have a different perspective at that point.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414791 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414791 <p>I wonder how many of the opponents of health care are currently spending a minimum of 1/4-1/3+ of their monthly gross income on medical bills above and beyond their premiums.&nbsp; How many have been bankrupted by medical bills?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I'm sure that you would have a different perspective at that point.</p> <p>As a card carrying member of AARP(my ex turned 50 in 1999 and we are still legally married), I assure you it is a VERY liberal organization. Ed Asner is one of their heros, They had big ads for, and were supporters of Clinton,Gore, Kerry and Obama. All liberals if memory serves. I have never seen anything in their magazine that supports or agrees with any conservative stance. That said, I still utilize the discounts they offer and I feel about as guilty for it as an illegal alien in an ER waiting room.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414839 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414839 <p>As a card carrying member of AARP(my ex turned 50 in 1999 and we are still legally married), I assure you it is a VERY liberal organization. Ed Asner is one of their heros, They had big ads for, and were supporters of Clinton,Gore, Kerry and Obama. All liberals if memory serves. I have never seen anything in their magazine that supports or agrees with any conservative stance. That said, I still utilize the discounts they offer and I feel about as guilty for it as an illegal alien in an ER waiting room.</p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">Thanks adam for posting this.&nbsp;</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">It helps to see all sides of this issue.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">AARP~ who knew?&nbsp;A bunch of liberal weirdos? Guess I should re-join.....</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">I quit when they sold us old folks down the river</span><span style="font-size: medium;"> during President Bush's tenure</span>.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414898 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_414898 <p><span style="font-size: medium;">Thanks adam for posting this.&nbsp;</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">It helps to see all sides of this issue.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">AARP~ who knew?&nbsp;A bunch of liberal weirdos? Guess I should re-join.....</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">I quit when they sold us old folks down the river</span><span style="font-size: medium;"> during President Bush's tenure</span>.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p></p> <a href="http://www.aarp.org/issues/dividedwefail/">dividedwefail.org</a><br /> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_415061 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_415061 <p></p> <a href="http://www.aarp.org/issues/dividedwefail/">dividedwefail.org</a><br /> <p></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><u><strong>They had big ads for, and were supporters of Clinton,Gore, Kerry and Obama. All liberals if memory serves</strong></u></p> <p>You'll want to get your memory checked next time you go to the doctor.</p> <p>Clinton was no liberal and Obama is proving to be not a liberal.</p> <p>And AARP&nbsp;is pragmatic, not liberal.&nbsp; They support issues that benefit their members, which just so happen to be causes conservatives are against.</p> <p>Here's something I&nbsp;always laugh about:</p> <p>A study was done where people were asked questions about issues without bringing political leanings into the questions.&nbsp; The study found that people who consider themselves conservative actually supported liberal causes.</p> <p>Conservatives are actually closet liberals.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_415113 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_415113 <p></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><u><strong>They had big ads for, and were supporters of Clinton,Gore, Kerry and Obama. All liberals if memory serves</strong></u></p> <p>You'll want to get your memory checked next time you go to the doctor.</p> <p>Clinton was no liberal and Obama is proving to be not a liberal.</p> <p>And AARP&nbsp;is pragmatic, not liberal.&nbsp; They support issues that benefit their members, which just so happen to be causes conservatives are against.</p> <p>Here's something I&nbsp;always laugh about:</p> <p>A study was done where people were asked questions about issues without bringing political leanings into the questions.&nbsp; The study found that people who consider themselves conservative actually supported liberal causes.</p> <p>Conservatives are actually closet liberals.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>An honest question for those against any kind of government insurance plan.</p> <p>Do you buy your own private medical insurance? Yes or no.</p> <p>If the answer is yes, how much does it cost per month, what's the deductible, and are you satisfied with the coverage you get for the money paid?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_415320 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/adampayne/46433/#c_415320 <p>An honest question for those against any kind of government insurance plan.</p> <p>Do you buy your own private medical insurance? Yes or no.</p> <p>If the answer is yes, how much does it cost per month, what's the deductible, and are you satisfied with the coverage you get for the money paid?</p>