http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800 Episcopal bishops meeting in Texas, saying the church embraces &quot;all of God's children&quot; including gays, refused to meet Anglican demands to change that position by a Sept. 30 deadline. This is the latest in a feud that pits minority conservative dioceses, such as the San Joaquin Valley, against the more liberal Episcopal leadership which supports equality for gays and women in the church. Episcopals are the American arm of the Anglican church. Up to 2.3 million people are Episcopals, which are part of the 77 million people in the Anglican church worldwide. A month ago, Anglican leaders (called primates) met in Tanzania, and gave Episcopalians until Sept. 30 to pledge not to consecrate another partnered gay bishop or authorize official prayers for same-sex couples. The Episcopal bishops response on Tuesday was to reject that settlement. It remains to be seen what will happen now. But already conservative members of the Episcopal church aren't happy with a majority leadership who recently rejected a Bakersfield bishop, the Rev. Mark Lawrence, to be bishop of the Diocese of South Carolina.&nbsp; Lawrence had enough votes, but Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori -- head of the American Episcopals -- declared three deciding votes were not cast properly under the rules. Jefferts Schori has also supported the ordination of a gay bishop in 2003. Who do you believe is following God's commands in this controversy &mdash; the minority conservatives or the majority leadership block? Posted by Steve E. Swenson &nbsp; Episcopal bishops meeting in Texas, saying the church embraces &quot;all of God's children&quot; including gays, refused to meet Anglican demands to change that position by a Sept. 30 deadline. This is the latest in a feud that pits minority conservative dioceses, such as the San Joaquin Valley, against the more liberal Episcopal leadership which supports equality for gays and women in the church. Episcopals are the American arm of the Anglican church. Up to 2.3 million people are Episcopals, which are part of the 77 million people in the Anglican church worldwide. A month ago, Anglican leaders (called primates) met in Tanzania, and gave Episcopalians until Sept. 30 to pledge not to consecrate another partnered gay bishop or authorize official prayers for same-sex couples. The Episcopal bishops response on Tuesday was to reject that settlement. It remains to be seen what will happen now. But already conservative members of the Episcopal church aren't happy with a majority leadership who recently rejected a Bakersfield bishop, the Rev. Mark Lawrence, to be bishop of the Diocese of South Carolina.&nbsp; Lawrence had enough votes, but Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori -- head of the American Episcopals -- declared three deciding votes were not cast properly under the rules. Jefferts Schori has also supported the ordination of a gay bishop in 2003. Who do you believe is following God's commands in this controversy &mdash; the minority conservatives or the majority leadership block? Posted by Steve E. Swenson &nbsp; en-us Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:54:18 PDT <p>After 2000 years Christians are still debating the basic tenets of their religion.&nbsp; Maybe that's good.&nbsp; But, I've got to question a belief system that's always in flux.&nbsp; It begs the question, was the past persecution of gays wrong.&nbsp; And if so, what else in wrong about Chrisitanity.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_69003 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_69003 <p>After 2000 years Christians are still debating the basic tenets of their religion.&nbsp; Maybe that's good.&nbsp; But, I've got to question a belief system that's always in flux.&nbsp; It begs the question, was the past persecution of gays wrong.&nbsp; And if so, what else in wrong about Chrisitanity.</p> <font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff0000" color="#0000ff">Actually, the Orthodox Church has not changed in 2000 years.&nbsp; It is sad that the Episcopal Bishops would sacrifice their flocks and eternal salvation to condescend to a few sick individuals.&nbsp; The Church should be a place for healing and telling a sick person that he is healthy is not showing love.&nbsp; Telling a alcoholic or drug addict that their behavior is not self destructive does not help them and only enables this self destructive behavior.</font> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_69026 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_69026 <font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff0000" color="#0000ff">Actually, the Orthodox Church has not changed in 2000 years.&nbsp; It is sad that the Episcopal Bishops would sacrifice their flocks and eternal salvation to condescend to a few sick individuals.&nbsp; The Church should be a place for healing and telling a sick person that he is healthy is not showing love.&nbsp; Telling a alcoholic or drug addict that their behavior is not self destructive does not help them and only enables this self destructive behavior.</font> Next thing you know, they'll be ministering to lepers. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_69064 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_69064 Next thing you know, they'll be ministering to lepers. buffoo, your post hurts my eyes, both figuratively and literally. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_69130 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_69130 buffoo, your post hurts my eyes, both figuratively and literally. Adam, it helps to highlight the post.&nbsp; That's the only way I could read it.&nbsp; It does not, however, help the content. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_69160 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_69160 Adam, it helps to highlight the post.&nbsp; That's the only way I could read it.&nbsp; It does not, however, help the content. Wait, somebody thinks that Christianity is about &quot;love thy neighbor&quot;? What is the world coming to? These people need to be removed, and quickly! Buffoo is right- we need to remove these &quot;self-destructive&quot; elements from the rest of the body. That way we can feel 100% guiltless when the people who believe as Boffoo does&nbsp;become&nbsp;a completely marginalized tiny group fighting amongst themselves in another year or so.... http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_69176 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_69176 Wait, somebody thinks that Christianity is about &quot;love thy neighbor&quot;? What is the world coming to? These people need to be removed, and quickly! Buffoo is right- we need to remove these &quot;self-destructive&quot; elements from the rest of the body. That way we can feel 100% guiltless when the people who believe as Boffoo does&nbsp;become&nbsp;a completely marginalized tiny group fighting amongst themselves in another year or so.... Love the sinner, love the sin -- a novel concept only the wolves in sheep's clothing who call Jesus "Beelzebub" could conjure up and scare the bejesus out of us with. http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_69414 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_69414 Love the sinner, love the sin -- a novel concept only the wolves in sheep's clothing who call Jesus "Beelzebub" could conjure up and scare the bejesus out of us with. <p>If in saying "all of God's creatures" I hope that they do not imply God creates humans doomed to have a certain 'sexuality.'<br /> And if by supporting gays they are supporting homosexual acts, that would not adhere to the teachings of Christ.  We should have no 'sexuality,' and in that I mean lust after any sex, desire sex after any sex, etcetera.  If we are to marry, may we love that other person in all purity, not driven by fleshly yearnings.  Most of you may be acquainted with Jesus's teaching about 'Thou shall not commit adultery' . . .that commiting the adultery in mind is just as great a shortfall as carrying the deed out, for it is in your heart.  Men should not lust after women in their heart, so should men lust after men (or women after women)?  If a man or woman wishes to marry, as a follower of Christ, why should they be attracted to certain individuals?  As homosexuality was condemned in the Bible, called a moral abomination, should we disobey?  We would not be following Christ in that matter.  Does that show faith and sincere love and thirst for God?  We have freedom in Christ to be free of sin, to be able to live for God, to be cleansed of selfishness, to become in His likeness--knowing good and evil, yet being pure.  Can we build up the things we have broken down?  We are either a slave to sin or a servant of righteousness.  </p> <p>AudreyB, followers of Christ should agree with one another, and if there is a difference, it is easily clarified from the Word of God.  There are those make their own beliefs in addition to the Bible (however much it contradicts), that it may please their itching ears.  The world is plentiful of false teachers.  You have to test everything in the Word of God.  I know it may seem like some Christians feel homosexuality is a horrid sin--a very great sin.  All sins are equally great.  I desire to make known I am not crusading against one sin, that those who commit that one sin be scrutinized.  I wish to correct the thoughts of those who believe in Jesus Christ and feel being sexually inclined is a fine thing.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_79189 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_79189 <p>If in saying "all of God's creatures" I hope that they do not imply God creates humans doomed to have a certain 'sexuality.'<br /> And if by supporting gays they are supporting homosexual acts, that would not adhere to the teachings of Christ.  We should have no 'sexuality,' and in that I mean lust after any sex, desire sex after any sex, etcetera.  If we are to marry, may we love that other person in all purity, not driven by fleshly yearnings.  Most of you may be acquainted with Jesus's teaching about 'Thou shall not commit adultery' . . .that commiting the adultery in mind is just as great a shortfall as carrying the deed out, for it is in your heart.  Men should not lust after women in their heart, so should men lust after men (or women after women)?  If a man or woman wishes to marry, as a follower of Christ, why should they be attracted to certain individuals?  As homosexuality was condemned in the Bible, called a moral abomination, should we disobey?  We would not be following Christ in that matter.  Does that show faith and sincere love and thirst for God?  We have freedom in Christ to be free of sin, to be able to live for God, to be cleansed of selfishness, to become in His likeness--knowing good and evil, yet being pure.  Can we build up the things we have broken down?  We are either a slave to sin or a servant of righteousness.  </p> <p>AudreyB, followers of Christ should agree with one another, and if there is a difference, it is easily clarified from the Word of God.  There are those make their own beliefs in addition to the Bible (however much it contradicts), that it may please their itching ears.  The world is plentiful of false teachers.  You have to test everything in the Word of God.  I know it may seem like some Christians feel homosexuality is a horrid sin--a very great sin.  All sins are equally great.  I desire to make known I am not crusading against one sin, that those who commit that one sin be scrutinized.  I wish to correct the thoughts of those who believe in Jesus Christ and feel being sexually inclined is a fine thing.</p> <p><font color="#ff0000">I've seen dogs hump each other and I'm sure alot of animals have, for a man on man/women on women ? I was told we are above the animals of this world and they are subjected to us HUMANS. We all know a man with man is un-natural, same with women with women. So you say they were born that way, they are in the wrong bodies, does that make it right? That Korean was he right to kill those people? Sure a church should take them on and preach what sin is, if they continue in that sin, they should be ask to leave. A pastor should warn them but,&nbsp; for the sake of the church body make them leave. You can destroy a body of believers by alouding sin to enter without judgment.</font></p> <p><font color="#ff0000">Ron.</font></p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_79202 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/faithforum/6800/#c_79202 <p><font color="#ff0000">I've seen dogs hump each other and I'm sure alot of animals have, for a man on man/women on women ? I was told we are above the animals of this world and they are subjected to us HUMANS. We all know a man with man is un-natural, same with women with women. So you say they were born that way, they are in the wrong bodies, does that make it right? That Korean was he right to kill those people? Sure a church should take them on and preach what sin is, if they continue in that sin, they should be ask to leave. A pastor should warn them but,&nbsp; for the sake of the church body make them leave. You can destroy a body of believers by alouding sin to enter without judgment.</font></p> <p><font color="#ff0000">Ron.</font></p>