Do you believe Jesus rose from the dead? - Faith Forum - faithforum's Blog - Bakersfield.com

Apr 4, 2007 at 12:04 PM : No.

No.

Apr 4, 2007 at 12:04 PM : Religions pretty much...

Religions pretty much fall apart if you don't believe in an afterlife. If you do believe in an afterlife, please describe it for me.

Apr 4, 2007 at 12:04 PM : Nope.

Nope.

Apr 4, 2007 at 12:04 PM : "The question...

"The question presupposes you believe in Jesus and he was both God and man" - so Randomfactor's answer isn't valid.

absolutely yes, I'm a believer. If it turns out in the end that it's all a sham and isn't true, then I don't really think it matters too much, other than perhaps losing a little time and money that I've given to the church in my lifetime, but in the process I've learned a lot and met a lot of great people (including my wife), so it's not all bad. But if it does turn out to be true, those that don't believe will be much worse off in the long run (i.e. eternity), then what I may have lost being a believer (in the relatively short run) during my lifetime. So being a believer is win (if its false)/win (if its true). Being a non-believer is a win (if its false) / lose (if its true). I think I'll take the win/win scenario.

Many say that Jesus was a good teacher, a good man, but not God. I'm not quite sure how to resolve that. If someone went around today claiming to be God, I'm not sure we'd necessarily call him a good man, or good teacher. Jesus was either a liar (what he claimed to be was false and he knew it), a lunatic (what he claimed to be was false and he didn't know it), or he was telling the truth. If he was a liar or lunatic, what makes that a good man or good teacher? If his disciples all knew that it was a lie, why would they all die (and most of them pretty viciously) for a lie? Perhaps it was just for to get in the papers for their 15 minutes of fame.

Apr 4, 2007 at 01:04 PM : The Nicene Creed as...

The Nicene Creed as witnessed and taught by the Apostles, Saints, Martyrs, Monastics, Laity, and all Christian at all time.

I Believe in one God, The Father Almighty,

Maker of heaven and earth, and of all

things visible and invisible;

And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

the Only-begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages;

Light of Light , true God of true God; begotten, not made;

being one essence with the Father; who for us men and our salvation,

came down from the Heaven's, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit

and the Virgin Mary, and became man;

And was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried;

And arose on the third day according to the scriptures;

And ascended into the Heaven's and sitteth at the right hand of the Father;

And shall come again , with glory, to judge both living and the dead;

Whose Kingdom shall have no end:

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord , the Giver of life;

Who proceedeth from the Father; Who with the Father and the Son together

is worshiped and glorified; Who spake by the Prophets;

In One, Holy, Universal, and Apostolic Church.

I confess one baptism for the remission of sins.

I look for the resurrection of the dead,

And the life of the age to come. Amen

Apr 4, 2007 at 01:04 PM : "Many say...

"Many say that Jesus was a good teacher, a good man, but not God. I'm not quite sure how to resolve that. If someone went around today claiming to be God, I'm not sure we'd necessarily call him a good man, or good teacher"

Ah, the Josh McDowell false "trilemma." You're talking to an ex-bornagain: me. :-)

Jesus likely never claimed to be God. Some words dubiously attributed to him in Revelation, though, could be construed that way. But then, you don't believe that every claim ever attributed to someone was actually made by that someone, do you?

"If his disciples all knew that it was a lie, why would they all die (and most of them pretty viciously) for a lie? "

I'll see you a People's Temple and a Heaven's Gate -- not to mention a whole passel of radical Islamic martyrs that we're to be worrying about.

The "trilemma" omits the most likely scenario: much of what is attributed to Jesus is urban legend from the time.

If you're interested, I'll give you an example of a legend that developed in the present day -- one related to this, in fact -- that has shown itself to be most likely false, but that doesn't stop the people who want to believe it anyway.

Apr 4, 2007 at 01:04 PM : As the song goes,...

As the song goes, "Because he lives I can face tomorrow." Yes, I believe he died for our sins, and rose again. It sounds too good to be true, but, then again, some things are too good, and too beautiful to be false. BTW, Jesus died for doubters.

The Stumbling Follower and the Doubting Believer

Apr 4, 2007 at 01:04 PM : That is what I tell...

That is what I tell people when they ask for help, sing the hymn" Tell your troubles to Jesus".

Apr 4, 2007 at 01:04 PM : I don't think he...

I don't think he was dead. And he wasn' t the only resurrection.

Apr 4, 2007 at 01:04 PM : I think the...

I think the resurrection story is a legend, a fantasy that never happened. Don't need to speculate that he wasn't really dead, if the alleged resurrection never happened.

I have some good reasons, that need some length to explain, but to make it brief, but the parts of the Gospel that deal with Jesus' leading and teaching, are fairly down to earth. But the stories of the resurrection (and the birth, BTW), are laden with a lot more -- what I would call -- fantasy creatures like angels and such. Funny how the angels aren't taking such conspicuous roles during Jesus' ordinary teaching years.

It's strange also how Jesus' mother is called "Mary" only once during the accounts of the adult Jesus. Otherwise, she is simply referred to as the mother of Jesus -- even though these same scenes include other women named Mary.

There are other little ambiguities, such as whether James is or is not the brother of Jesus. And who is this Joses guy? A little mix-up, perhaps? Hmmm.

Apr 4, 2007 at 01:04 PM : People who give the...

People who give the impression that they have it all together and that they never doubt the miracles of the Bible actually stand in the way of miracles happening. They are not being real. Those who doubt are the real believers because those who doubt, more earnestly seek for the truth, and when they find it, they know in their hearts that it's real, not just religion's "talking points" talking.

I know that the miracles of the Bible, including the resurrection, are real because of the miracle God is creating in my heart. It takes a miracle for my heart to convince my doubting mind that Jesus is alive. My faith is still growing. It is still weak, and it is not a faith bereft of even the deepest and darkest of doubts.

Apr 4, 2007 at 01:04 PM : Robb, ...

Robb,
I'll send you an e-mail from eternalsalvation.org. It will include a full description including how smoothe the greens are.

Apr 4, 2007 at 02:04 PM : Steve, Looking...

Steve,

Looking forward to that. Good to know someone is willing to put it on the line. Previously, only Dallas from the old blogs had the nerve. The Pax types will only say nobody knows, but it's (use your Billy Chrystal voice here) "absolutely fabulous."

No golf would be hell.

Apr 4, 2007 at 02:04 PM : Steve, you recall the...

Steve, you recall the old joke about the two golfers who made the same agreement? First one to get to Heaven would come back and let the other one know if there's golfing up there.

Well, Sam dies first and a week later appears before his old buddy. "Good news and bad news, Bob. There *IS* golf in heaven--beautiful courses, incredible weather, angelic caddies who know just which club to hand you.

"The bad news is...you've got a 9 am tee-time next Thursday."

Apr 4, 2007 at 02:04 PM : No, Anny, the...

No, Anny, the presupposition isn't valid. My answer stands as given.

Apr 4, 2007 at 02:04 PM : Random,...

Random,
Love the joke.

Apr 4, 2007 at 02:04 PM : I love the joke too,...

I love the joke too, random. A great joke from a great bloke!

Apr 4, 2007 at 03:04 PM : Probably not, but the...

Probably not, but the 2004 Red Sox were definitely raised from the dead in the ALCS against the Yanks!

And they were dead longer than Jesus!

Apr 4, 2007 at 03:04 PM : If the Red Sox can be...

If the Red Sox can be resurrected, then there is a God, there is a Jesus who was raised from the dead, and miracles really do exist.

Apr 4, 2007 at 03:04 PM : Hey now..I am a BoSox...

Hey now..I am a BoSox fan..it was their year! The planets were aligned and all that nonsense.

Apr 4, 2007 at 03:04 PM : I believe in...

I believe in miracles..I have witnessed one. My favorite all time pastor, Pastor Dave, prayed over my nephew who was going rapidly downhill with spinal meningitis. Pastor Dave prayed over him and less than an hour later, the kid who couldn't hold up his own head, was running around the room looking for his favorite toys..I love Pastor Dave and miss his ministry. He is in San Diego. He loved everyone, he didn't fear homosexuals, he embraced them..and he never judged anyone..and I mean ANYONE. He was a man that walked the walk of Jesus. He brought me back to God singlehandedly.

Apr 4, 2007 at 03:04 PM : Sounds like a good...

Sounds like a good man, Dusty.

Apr 4, 2007 at 03:04 PM : A wonderful man.. He...

A wonderful man.. He came over to my house afterward and talked to me for literally 3 hours about God. I asked him lots of questions about God's acceptance of people..and he answered them all beautifully. Jesus hates the sin, but never the sinner..I remember that more than anything else he ever told me. He was so full of love for his fellow man..and woman regardless of their status in life.

Apr 4, 2007 at 03:04 PM : we had a very nice...

we had a very nice discussion about homosexuality, abortion, cannabis and activism..he is an amazing man of God. The only one I have ever found to be honest.

Apr 4, 2007 at 04:04 PM : Yes, he sounds like an...

Yes, he sounds like an amazing, rare individual, dusty.

Apr 4, 2007 at 04:04 PM : He was a pastor...

He was a pastor who's sermons were uplifting and positive. He was a very simple man that would give you anything he had if he thought it would help you out. His wife hated that trait..lol.

Apr 5, 2007 at 01:04 AM : Only Christ is in...

Only Christ is in position to let Robb in on what could be expected in the afterlife. Ditto for Hardliner4freedom on whether he claimed to be God. Both can be found among the first 10 verses in John 14 at this link.

What if all that Christ and his disciples taught turned out to be true? What lame excuses would be given on Judgment Day by those who doubted them? Would they expect to hear the Father to say, "Well done, my faithful servant, enter into the joy of your master's house," and receive a key for one of the McMansions in the sky? Sure, God has an ocean of mercy for those who repent, but those who don't very well could receive the fig tree treatment as described in Matt 21:19.

Apr 5, 2007 at 01:04 AM : P.S. I hear the lone...

P.S. I hear the lone golf course in hell is a killer. Sand greens. Withered fig trees galore. Lakes of fire. Quicksand traps. About the only nice thing is the generous handicaps.

Apr 5, 2007 at 07:04 AM : Ah, but no water...

Ah, but no water hazards, Pax.

Apr 5, 2007 at 07:04 AM : I guess the Lake Of...

I guess the Lake Of Fire doesn't count. ;-)

Apr 5, 2007 at 07:04 AM : Look, nobody...

Look, nobody who's played golf in Bakersfield in the summer is going to be bothered by any Lake of Fire...

Apr 5, 2007 at 08:04 AM : "Only Christ...

"Only Christ is in position to let Robb in on what could be expected in the afterlife."

How convenient. One of the Bible's books ought to be Catch 22.

Apr 5, 2007 at 08:04 AM : Catch 22:1: ...

Catch 22:1: Yea, only those crazy enough to believe shall be deemed sane, and those who fail to believe shall be called crazy; I am Major Major thy Major Major.

Apr 5, 2007 at 11:04 AM : Pax, you just...

Pax, you just described Peppertree golf course.

Apr 5, 2007 at 08:04 PM : RF..gotta agree with...

RF..gotta agree with you there. If you don't have an early tee time in August you know what hell really feels like. My daughter and I walked the course on Cottonwood..can't remember the name...and by the time we were done I threatened her with bodily harm if she ever mentioned walking again. Thought I was gonna have the vapors.

Ooops..off topic again.

Apr 5, 2007 at 08:04 PM : Hey, Good evening Nancy!

Hey, Good evening Nancy!

Apr 5, 2007 at 08:04 PM : Hey Dusty.. ...

Hey Dusty.. Evening to you too.

Apr 8, 2007 at 09:04 PM : Oh, yes, the...

Oh, yes, the Peppertree Golf Course, formerly Valle Grande, right? What a surrealistic experience that was at times to play on that course. Wasn't there a giant sewage plant running alongside one of the nine holes?

Anyway, to get back on topic (and Happy Easter, by the way!). I came across an article on the resurrection, which makes mention of the Josh McDowell whose article Steve referred to at the beginning.

Here's a most telling paragraph: “The fundamental conviction in a scientific age with our post-enlightenment views is that these things didn’t happen,” said Barber. “People have determined that any source that talks about resurrection is unreliable and rule it out. What kind of science is that? You don’t just dispense with evidence that you don’t like.

What kind of science is that, indeed. For the rest of the story: http://ncregister.com/site/article/2184

Apr 8, 2007 at 09:04 PM : Valle...

Valle Grande..yayyy..thanks for that..I could NOT remember it.

Apr 8, 2007 at 10:04 PM : You're welcome,...

You're welcome, Nancy. That course sure was a forgettable one, although it did have a bit of endearing charm to it, like much of Bakersfield, ha!

Apr 18, 2007 at 09:04 PM : It says in the Bible...

It says in the Bible if there was no resurrection, then our hope is in vain.
I believe in the resurrection, for I believe Jesus was God manifest in the flesh, as the Bible tells me so. If Jesus was without flaw, then death could not keep its hold on Him, and He rose again, abolishing the laws of sin and death. We die because we fall short. We inherit this nature of falling short from Adam and Eve, for separate from God, they could not live forever. And their children would have to inherit that sinful nature for them to be mortal. Those who trust in Christ will receive God's Spirit, as promised. He will make His home in the believer, and put to death that selfish nature. If they continue in trust, they will not die, but live forevermore.
Because Jesus rose again can we have everlasting life with our Creator.