what does intelligence have to do with anything? - If you judge people, you have no time to love them. - freethinker's Blog - Bakersfield.com

Jul 5, 2009 at 10:07 AM : Every person has their...

Every person has their strengths, just as they have their weaknesses. I've learned quite a bit lately from people who think and comprehend differently from me.

One thing to consider though is that IQ is not an indication of how smart someone is, but instead is a measure of how quickly one can grasp a concept. As an example, I have a high enough IQ to qualify for MENSA, but there are plenty of things I know little to nothing about, and there are plenty of decisions I've made that can be considered stupid. I was not the most studious in college (for which I really regret), and even though I normally scored higher in math on standardized tests, I normally did average or poor in math related classes. As I've matured (especially in the past few years), I've realized that I have the ability, but I was unwilling to take the time to actually learn.

I'm not a saint, and while I do aspire to treating people equally, regardless of education, I'm only human and I do sometimes get carried away. At the same time, however, what upsets me most are people who have the ability to learn, yet they refuse to take that gift and use it wisely. We all have abilities - it's what we do with them that counts, IMO.

Jul 5, 2009 at 10:07 AM : Bloggers kicked that...

Bloggers kicked that subject around not so long ago. Intelligence is an abstract and relative term; how it is defined depends on how intelligence is applied.

In general, bloggers on this site may state their experience or education for the sake of their credibility. Few will declare an IQ score because most realize such numbers are meaningless for the subjects being discussed.

I am not sure of what you mean when you say you are "not smart" or that you want to be "smarter." I've been comparing myself to others pretty much my whole life. I still fall short. Take my word: not worth the concern.

Jul 5, 2009 at 10:07 AM : Intelligence is...

Intelligence is overrated.

And, for what it's worth, I don't think you're stupid, freethinker.

Jul 5, 2009 at 11:07 AM : You know those people...

You know those people you see who use things to make up for deficiencies about themselves or the way their lives are going?

The classic would be the bald guy driving a Porsche or the 'small' man driving a truck jacked up 3 feet in the air?

The insecure idiots who ramble on and on and pontificating about nothing.

Oh ya, you nailed it, the total dumb-asses who always bring up their education and number of degrees with majors in minors and memberships is this society or that fraternity... but haven't got the life experience to know when the hell to shut up. I see that was already reinforced above.

The second or third school I dropped out of, My grandfather was at the point of dissowning me. He said ~Alright kid, Someone has to dig ditches.~ I said Yup, because when people think to highly of themselves and won't lower themselves to dig , I can charge whatever amount I want.

Jul 5, 2009 at 11:07 AM : hm ... I suppose it...

hm ...

I suppose it could be worse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLEJCg7xgtI&feature=related

--virgil

Jul 5, 2009 at 12:07 PM : or start at an earlier...

or start at an earlier age

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNry4PE93Y

something Ive learned over the years is that more than usual a high IQ type individual lacks common sense and the ability to do quality manual labor.....they just dont function along those lines..im not saying this to be mean...its just a personal observation that is shared by alot of people in the working world

Jul 5, 2009 at 12:07 PM : It's funny but...

It's funny but although I am college educated I find that what I learned in High School vocational classes such as Electricity, Cabinet making, Arch. Drafting, Metal shop and auto Mechanics have served me better. I guess it may have helped to be the son of a truck mechanic and mechanically inclined.

Jul 5, 2009 at 12:07 PM : Neverleft - I think...

Neverleft - I think High School vocational classes are a good foundation - I took drafting courses my Freshman and Sophmore years of HS, and they definitely have been useful in adult life. Overall though, it's not the so much the subject matter that I learned in college, but the concepts of better reasoning & critical thinking, analysis and communication learned through those 4 years of advanced study that have been most valuble in my career.

Jul 5, 2009 at 01:07 PM : I find it just as...

I find it just as insulting when certain people assume all educated people are snooty, arrogant or "above manual labor". I've been accused countless times on this blog of being arrogant for using words like "actually" or just trying to share the knowledge I have because it pertained to the topic at hand. Such behavior is just as generalizing and incorrect as when the educated people look down on the uneducated people. Both sides are in the wrong when they act that way.

And like Neverleft, I'm educated but I also find manual labor to be rewarding and downright cost-effective. I've only had to call a plumber when the sewer main backed up and needed to be snaked. Leaky faucets and toilet repairs are all things I can do myself. I don't have a gardener and instead tend to my yard myself. I've dug up and repaired numerous sprinklers and sprinkler valves. I even build this behemoth over summer break in grad school because I wanted something showy yet practical for the fish. It can hold a 40g in the middle, four 10g up top and can store several 5g-10g in the cabinets.

Jul 5, 2009 at 01:07 PM : FSG. I agree with your...

FSG. I agree with your assessment. Advanced study is valuable but not for everyone. Vocational studies give those who don't or can't go on to higher learning a skill to use in life. I had trouble with conventional Math classes in high school but learning to use it hands on in vocational classes helped me considerably and gave me a better understanding of concepts.

Jul 5, 2009 at 01:07 PM : I wasnt saying there...

I wasnt saying there isnt anything wrong with different kinds of learning--traditional or vocational. I guess in my case vocational is "looked down on" because its saying im not "smart enough" to do traditional college. It does feel insulting to me because i'm the only non-college-material person in my family. But just my feelings.

Jul 5, 2009 at 02:07 PM : i do all my own and...

i do all my own and its rare I will ask for outside help..electrical wood work mechanics cement laying weldng etc....I can even rent a snake and do my own plumbing..older homes make good teachers..I took classes and on the job training or figured it out myself...yup even took night classes and college classes over my lifetime...we still have to take child care classes ..cpr etc etc to have foster children in our home ..so school doesnt stop unless you do..

I did just call in a roofing contractor this week but in the old days I would have done it myself cause me and pop always did our own growing up and on other houses Ive owned..

*BUT* with the way the economy has crapped its just too affordable to pay some one else..and help boost the economy at the same time...

not too mention a crew can 'get r done' alot faster then one man and a couple teen boys..now

'if I only Had A Brain'

Jul 5, 2009 at 03:07 PM : You guys are so right...

You guys are so right about vocational training. In Germany in the early 1990s, 16-year-olds had the option of either going to college-preparatory school, vocational school, or just be finished with school altogether. The vocational schools offered various vocations training, and I had one acquaintance who chose to be a butcher, one who chose to be a hairdresser, and one who chose to be an administrative assistant. In Germany, all of these jobs paid enough for a young person to support themselves when they got out of vocations training at 18. They had all the education they needed to start out in life, and they didn't have to pay for college to do it--it was all in the vocational high school.

As for DIY--Sioux, you are RIGHT ON. It really is cheap nowadays to hire contractors again. My husband has been spending every weekend for the last 3 weeks re-doing the laundry room, and when he found out from my Mom how much she paid for tile-installation, chair rail installation, etc, he realized he's going to hire someone to do this stuff from now on. Yay! Looks like I get my husband back.

Jul 5, 2009 at 03:07 PM : There's a...

There's a difference between intelligent and educated. I tell my students that the most successful people are not the smartest, but the most persistent. All of us are "educated" in something: some of us to read fancy books and some to fix brake pads and some to deal drugs--but we're all educated. And it's what we're educated IN that we find most valuable, so that's why some people "look down" on others--because they value different stuff. For example, you may value teen sports higher than you value a teen's academic learning, and that's ok. It's also ok for me to look down on that idea, because I happen to believe we gain more power and freedom through education than through ball-throwing, so that's where I'd rather put my money. So if you want to learn how to read fancier books, come to me. But if you need new brake pads, go see my friend Randy at Motor City West. But whatever you do, criticize the ideas, not the people --we all bleed red, no?

Jul 5, 2009 at 03:07 PM : ...I'm...

...I'm the only non-college-material person in my family.

Does that mean you don't measure up to expectations? Welcome to the club. Assess what you want out of life and follow your dreams. Fulfilling the ambitions of your parents or anybody else will not make you happy. Or them.

Jul 5, 2009 at 04:07 PM : cat..i can lay tile...

cat..i can lay tile have my own saw etc..but if i can sucker some one else into it for a few bucks..hahah im right there with ya..

Jul 5, 2009 at 06:07 PM : I'll be the first...

I'll be the first to admit that I didn't grow up learning how to rebuild an engine, as my father was never really into that sort of thing, though he wasn't mechanically stupid either. However, I've made up for it by learning quite a bit over the years on how to make my own repairs.. aka.. do my own labor. I spent plenty of humid Florida summers as a pre-teen and teenager doing extensive yard work - real back breaking labor. I've scrubbed kitchen pots until 2 a.m. when I first started out in the restaurant business. I've cleaned the puke out of bathroom sinks at the local pool hall. I've done plumbing repairs & worked on my car.

I'll agree with Shwaine - it's insulting to suggest that those of us with higher education aren't able or willing to do manual labor. I'll admit, I'm not a fan of it, but who is? If I had a choice between a job where I was dirty every day and was able to provide enough for my family, or a desk job in a suit and tie but unable to bring enough home to pay the bills, I wouldn't even give it a second thought - I'd be rolling up my sleeves and putting my body through hell. However, I went to college so that I'd most likely be able to make the choice between blue or white collar work, instead of having a more limited selection. My current job technically straddles the fence, as though I'm in sales, I spend the vast majority of my time around the very people who've gone to the vocational schools, and in many cases, might not have even graduated high school. This is why I say in utmost certainty that everyone is talented and intelligent in their own ways. I look at some of the complex machines some of these men and women work around and wonder how they do it - and I respect them.

Jul 6, 2009 at 08:07 AM : I worked in the cotton...

I worked in the cotton fields, oil fields, and construction in my lifetime- I hate manual labor!

Jul 6, 2009 at 08:07 AM : Amen.

Amen.

Jul 6, 2009 at 08:07 AM : Intelligence is...

Intelligence is overrated.

But dumb is over-excused.

Jul 6, 2009 at 09:07 AM : I don't...

I don't know about that, Random.

Anyway, I believe that since most IQs fall within a few points of each other (with the exception of the decidedly brilliant and the severely mentally handicapped,) society's slavish devotion to the concept of intelligence (or the perception of it, anyway) is much ado about nothing. Really.

My kids don't love me for my intelligence--they love me for my heart. My intelligence won't clean my house for me, and while my intelligence always made test-taking easy, it rarely ever got me jobs (experience did that) and it never completed work for me (determination did that.)

I appreciate and admire an individual's intelligence as much as the next gal, but I appreciate and admire an individual's loving heart, integrity, perseverence and sacrifice even more. Character is the stuff that dreams are made of.

Jul 6, 2009 at 09:07 AM : Cat I couldn't...

Cat

I couldn't wait to earn enough money to hire someone else to do the manual labor. I'll still do the stuff I can to save a buck or because I'm EXTREMELY picky*, but it's such a relief to have a professional handle the hard work.

I'm glad that SIN is coming around!!!

What did you call me? A type "A" housekeeper.

Jul 6, 2009 at 10:07 AM : Yeah, and I'm a...

Yeah, and I'm a type-B housekeeper, which is why I'm sitting here blogging when I've got PILES of work to do. NO ONE hates manual labor (or any other kind of labor) more than I do.

Is there a job where you sit around drinking coffee and reading magazines all day? 'Cause THAT'S where my intelligence leads me--nowhere, fast. Haha.

Jul 6, 2009 at 11:07 AM : Yeah, and...

Yeah, and I'm a type-B housekeeper, which is why I'm sitting here blogging when I've got PILES of work to do. NO ONE hates manual labor (or any other kind of labor) more than I do.

Hi Catherine,

I used to own a copy of the Phyllis Diller Guide to Good House Keeping. Lost it a long time ago, but I liked her house keeping schedule.

Example: Monday 10AM Rake Living Room.

Jul 6, 2009 at 01:07 PM : LOL Don! ...

LOL Don! That reminds me of an old cookbok of mine--"Five-Star Favorites: Recipes From Friends of Mamie and Ike." It's a real blast from the past and has super-fancy recipes from the Elite of the 1960s--Jackie Onassis, Dinah Shore, etc. Anyway, it's got this recipe from Phyllis Diller called "garbage soup," and it's so refreshingly down-to-earth and funny.

Anyway, I'm rewarding myself with a short blogging break after getting quite a bit done this morning. Woohoo! : )

Jul 6, 2009 at 08:07 PM : LOL Catherine about...

LOL Catherine about the "type-B" housekeeper! Is there a "type-F" grade, because if so I could write the classification AND teach the classes!

Jul 6, 2009 at 09:07 PM : I'll be the...

I'll be the secondary instructor for that class Vanityfair *looks at the cat hair gathering under the desk and the dishes on the counter*.

Jul 6, 2009 at 10:07 PM : LOL, Shwaine! You can...

LOL, Shwaine! You can be my TA ... I'll train you well : )

Jul 7, 2009 at 08:07 AM : Vanity &...

Vanity & Shwaine--The only time my house REALLY gets clean is when my mother-in-law comes to visit from out of town (about 3 times a year.) Then I spend a whole week scrubbing black marks and crayon off the walls, washing knick-knacks, cleaning out the pantry and wiping down the shelves, noticing and removing cobwebs in the corners (so many!) and washing only those windows that the MIL is likely to see. It's an exhausting week, and by the time my squeaky-clean MIL gets here I'm tired and irritated.

Last time she visited she brought my socially-inept (and slobby) sister-in-law who, the morning after they arrived, said, "I'm so glad you don't worry about having a clean house. It's more important to spend time with the kids."

AFTER A WEEK OF CLEANING!!!!

So yeah, if you guys are instructors at "Slob University," I'm the head of the Futility Dept.

Jul 7, 2009 at 08:07 AM : I'm late chiming...

I'm late chiming in on this one but I have to add that my Dad had a 2 grade formal education and a lifetime of life education. He taught himself Allegra and whatever math equations he needed due to his work in the oilfields as a driller and later a toolpusher responsible for ordering the mud, etc. (I'm math illiterate..what do I know?) He worked as a carpenter during the war (4F) building camps for the Japanese in AZ (which is how I happened to be born there in a nest of Texans) so when they bought the land, he built our home. He built a camper for his Studebaker pickup that carried my parents all over, panning for gold and even to Alaska on the Alcan also panning. He took over a small gold mine in Havilah and build the Mill (crusher), mercury plates and he used to read his kids school books like you'd read a novel. He had a near photographic memory that always amazed me and he could quote any passage from the Bible that you wanted.

My Mother had about a 6th grade EDU and was the wisest, kindest woman on the planet. She baked awesome biscuits and canned everything she could get her hands on. She made all my clothes, crocheted like you wouldn't believe and was always there when you needed a shoulder.

All 3 of their kids graduated from high school..the first in their entire family. It wasn't an option, it was expected. I never discount the importance of formal education, especially these days, but I also never discount life experience. Life IS school. Life IS education and you really do need both. One comes relatively quickly but the other in ongoing from birth.

I constantly ask my groups "When is a mistake not a mistake?" They rarely see where I'm going until I tell them "When you learn something from it..then it becomes a lesson."

Jul 7, 2009 at 08:07 AM : On cleaning...my motto...

On cleaning...my motto is my place is clean enough to be healthy and messy enough to be comfortable. If you can find a place to sit that is. Once a week I clear a path from the living room to each room whether it needs it or not.

I prolly rank about a C or D on the scale. On a good week.

Jul 7, 2009 at 08:07 AM : There is a book called...

There is a book called Anti-Intellectualism in American LIfe that won the 1964 Pullitzer Prize for General Non-Fiction (read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism_in_American_Life ) that suggests that our society's colonial, evangelical and egalitarian heritage caused an unprecedented distrust of intellectuals. Interesting thesis.

Personally, I subscribe to the 'multiple intelligences' theory of human psychology. I think people are not restricted to just one type of intelligence, in particular the one that most people equate with bookishness, but instead may have one or more areas of real talent. (Read the list here: http://professorlamp.com/ed/TAG/7_Intelligences.html ).

Being mechanical or 'good with one's hands' is an example of one of the intelligences for humans. Interpersonal relations is another. The problem with any discussion of intelligence is that, as random points out, folks use the subject to assuage their hurts and bruises, often at the cost of injuring others. We often see that in the belief that bookish people have 'no common sense', which is NOT one of the multiple intelligences, and in fact is a thing so poorly defined that one has to wonder if it exists at all. Another is that insanity is more common in intelligent people. Our long-standing acceptance of the negative stereotyping of bookish teens (nerd, dork, geek) is another. The dumb beauty queen is another (how can someone be beautiful AND intelligent?).

I can understand freethinker's desire to level the playing field. Multiple intelligences theory does a pretty good job of it. But if you want to be honest with yourself and truly understand the world, you have to understand that their simply ARE people who have more talent than you, that are 'smarter' than you, (in multiple areas, even) and that denying that reality is a defensive reaction.

The reason I think we need to recognize this is because our society has been injured much more by a distrust of intellectualism than it has by the snobbery of vanity of the intelligent.

Our schools are full of children who are ashamed to be thought of as 'school boys' or 'school girls'. That is the tragedy. These blogs daily put on display the false truths of an over-reliance on an egalitarian mind-set. Many of our blogger friends here record only their opinions, without reference, as if that by itself is worthy of the world's attention and holds the same water as a well-referenced piece of research. Our society gives birth to people saying "I don't believe" in response to items of scientific empiricism and pronouncements of empirical truths based on religious passages.

Ours is not a balanced society in this regard, and in that sense I think I am in full agreement with freethinker. We differ only, I suspect, in our view of which direction is the skew. I would also only add that if freethinker is correct about this, then we have hurt feelings only. If I am correct, we have a country slipping behind in technological and scientific achievements at a time when we most need them to compete internationally.

Jul 7, 2009 at 08:07 AM : suggests...

suggests that our society's colonial, evangelical and egalitarian heritage caused an unprecedented distrust of intellectuals.

And yet the intellectuals *CREATED* this country.