The rich receive the very best care. The level of care that they want. - There is a Chance - tkozy's Blog - Bakersfield.com

Jun 28, 2009 at 02:06 PM : Today,...

Today, under the plan that you see as godly. The rich receive the very best care. The level of care that they want.

While many Americans can only want for care. And receive nothing.

Jun 28, 2009 at 04:06 PM : What's your point?

What's your point?

Jun 28, 2009 at 04:06 PM : The rich get the very...

The rich get the very best cars and the very best houses...Like dril says, what is your point??

Jun 28, 2009 at 05:06 PM : dril and ron, Over...

dril and ron,

Over 17,000 Americans die to a lack of medical coverage. A single payer health care system will still allow the rich to pay for plastic surgery or liposecution with their own money.

Jun 28, 2009 at 05:06 PM : Obama said...

Obama said he wants the best for his family. That in no way means he wouldn't use the single payer health plan.

You must be smokin what virgil is smokin. "O" didn't say he would either now did he? The question was pretty simple and a simple yes or no would have sufficed but "O" knew darned well he would not utilize the same health care so he bs'd the answer - oops parsed his words

Jun 28, 2009 at 05:06 PM : Will the two of you...

Will the two of you stop pretending to be dense!

Your excuse is that the single payer system will allow the rich to get better care than the rest of us.

My point is that what you say means nothing will change.

The rich will continue get better care than the rest of us under today's system.

The difference is that all of us WILL get care under the single payer system.

Today, under the plan that you see as godly. The rich receive the very best care. The level of care that they want.
While many Americans can only want for care. And receive nothing.

Jun 28, 2009 at 05:06 PM : The difference is that...

The difference is that all of us WILL get care under the single payer system.

yup - six months after you are buried.

SPAM CODE: MJ HIT

Jun 28, 2009 at 05:06 PM : America spends $800...

America spends $800 Billion dollars a year to make sure we can kill some dude with an AK-47 in another country, but will not lift a finger to save 40 million Americans from preventable diseases through proactive care.

Jun 28, 2009 at 05:06 PM : UNCLE: Well...

UNCLE: Well there ya go!

Jun 28, 2009 at 05:06 PM : Pitters, ...

Pitters,

Are you saying that if asked the same question. You wouldn't say you wanted the best for your family?

If that is what you said. . How can I suggest that you would then go to Mexico to get care under our current system. How could I suggest your answer would mean anything but what you said.'You want the best for your family"

Fact is. Other than in the single payer system. Where would doctors ply their trade?

From Obama's answer, (in fact the same answer you would give if asked the question). You jump to the conclusion that the best doctors would not be in the single payer system.

Doctors work in the VA system.

The same doctors my friends use, treat me in my Medicare program.

And I know of MediCal patients that use my doctors.

If Arnold drops the dental coverage for MediCal recipients.. Dentists will go bankrupt in droves.

Even as it stands today The medical profession is very dependent on Government financing.

Hospitals, medical schools, and medical research would all go the way of the Dodo bird without government funds.

What scares the medical insurance groups is that they will have to reduce overhead to compete with the 3 to 4 percent overhead in the VA, Medicare ,Medical field. Today's medical insurers operate in the 30% to 40% overhead range.

They can't do that and still afford to attract doctors that will represent them exclusively.

Jun 28, 2009 at 05:06 PM : The simple fact that...

The simple fact that those who are hoisting this scheme on us are giving themselves an exemption is enough evidence that it is a steaming turd pile.

Jun 28, 2009 at 05:06 PM : BUT.............TK,...

BUT.............TK, would/will you and your friends still be able to have those same wonderful doctors under "O"'s plan? I can, now, go to any hospital, any doctor (last year had to go to a specialist at UCLA) and I pay my deductible and my insurance picks up the rest. Under "O"'s plan do you really think that would have happened within the week like it did for me? Or would I have to wait six months to even see my internist (who referred me to UCLA) then another 6 months to maybe get there? I had a tumor (growing) in a vein behind my ear - it need to be extracted ASAP. Within a week of seeing my internist I was in surgery. Same situation when I had cancer. Internist on Monday, in surgery by Friday. I honestly doubt that will happen under "O"'s plan for US. He and his family on the other hand will be delt with immediately if not sooner.

Hospitals, medical schools, and medical research would all go the way of the Dodo bird without government funds.

We aren't talking hospitals, schools or research - we are talking about people receiving adaquate care.

And, yes, I do believe that is how it will be regardles of whether I WANT the best care for my family.

Jun 28, 2009 at 05:06 PM : Tkoz, could you guys...

Tkoz, could you guys please get your lies straight?/ Obama says he wants to create competition for insurance companies, which means no single payer system. Then he says he wants a single payer system. Single payere system means no insurance companies. Can you guys decide what lie you want to tell, then stick with it??

Jun 28, 2009 at 05:06 PM : pitters, I can...

pitters,

I can guarantee you that under the government run Medicare system I have received the best medical care available in Kern County.

All for a 100 dollar/month premium and a small copay.

With out a doubt I would be dead today if not for a government run medical system,. (VA, Medicare)

And the last years of my life would have been spent as a pauper.

Keep talking trash.

You have no idea the reality of our current medical system.

I was the victim of two company bankruptcy's. Both times my partner was already pregnant. When the companies went bankrupt. I lost all my medical coverage. I was forced to pay for COBRA coverage. The cost. In the early 1980's was $450/month. I would guess that would compare to over $1000/month today.

Blue Cross said they wouldn't pay for the coverage. They claimed that pregnancy wasn't a pre-existing condition. I fought many months with them. Finally I went to the welfare office and showed them receipts for all my payments. (I paid personally at the office and insisted on receipts).

I explained that I was unemployed. I explained that if Blue Cross didn't pay the bill. The state of California would have to pay.

Just 2 letters from the welfare office cleared the mess up.

But my point is simple. Blue Cross did not care to give me the best medical care. Their sole responsibility was to their stock holders.

That maybe fine when you are running a auto company.

But that is no way to run a medical institution that claims to be the best in the world.

Jun 28, 2009 at 06:06 PM : Mexico, Obama has...

Mexico,

Obama has only said he was open to ideas. Period.

The idea of a single payer system does not rule out private insures. In general most single payer systems have privately run upgrade insurers.

I belong to Health Net. I pay no additional premium. But receive care in excess of what is paid for by Strait medicare.

An upgrade insurer who wishes to cover elective cosmetic surgery. Or implants instead of dentures would have no problem operating in the single payer system.

Obama has said over and over that under his plan people could keep their current system. Period.

Jun 28, 2009 at 06:06 PM : Pitters, You are...

Pitters,

You are listening to lies. Where have you gotten that 6 month figure? Where is the proof. Where are the statistic?
You have none because you are repeating a figment of someone’s imagination.

Even with the added patients. In short order care will improve.
Everyone will have a personal physician. Lines at emergency rooms will disappear.

It is a system that is accepted in every industrialized nation in the World. It is a system that works.

Don’t forget that the World Health organization rates our system at 37th. Just one up from Slovenia then Cuba.

Jun 28, 2009 at 06:06 PM : America is the only...

America is the only industrialized nation in the world that does not have a government sponsored, single payer health system.
And it is The LEAST accessible. MOST Expensive . Ranked only 37th in level of care...From:

http://www.photius.com/rank...

The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.
Source: WHO World Health Report - See also Spreadsheet Details (731kb)

------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra

34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba

Question? So it would appear the WHO assessment not only takes into account quality and accessibility, but fairness of financial contribution. Fair is not an objective term. Is taxing higher income individuals more than lower income individuals for the same health care fair?

TK continues:

According to Adam Smith, ‘Wealth of Nations’.

Yes, It is in fact a part of a system of the, ‘Redistribution of Wealth’. A necessary requirement for Capitalism to succeed.

Far right Conservatives. Are in indeed some of the worst Adam Smith Capitalists in the World.. (translates to selfish )

Smith Says:

Before I enter upon the examination of particular taxes, it is necessary to premise the four following maxims with regard to taxes in general.

V.2.24
I. The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state. The expence of government to the individuals of a great nation is like the expence of management to the joint tenants of a great estate, who are all obliged to contribute in proportion to their respective interests in the estate. In the observation or neglect of this maxim consists what is called the equality or inequality of taxation. Every tax, it must be observed once for all, which falls finally upon one only of the three sorts of revenue above mentioned, is necessarily unequal in so far as it does not affect the other two. In the following examination of different taxes I shall seldom take much further notice of this sort of inequality, but shall, in most cases, confine my observations to that inequality which is occasioned by a particular tax falling unequally even upon that particular sort of private revenue which is affected by it.

TK Continues:

Just because life is not fair. Does not mean the concept of fairness is devoid of value..

The saying does not have anything to do with:

A struggle to attain fairness. A quest to the mountain top. .

It simple means. You don’t always get to win..

But then I suppose. There is nothing unfair about that…

Fair is what the Democratic Republic says it is.. In this society. Fair is Walnuts. . Go to the mountains.. Squirrel away your pecans. They are no good in a walnut society..

So much is made of what detractors would like to call a socialized medical system.. How it would be a step toward a loss of freedom in America..

The goal is not a socialized medical system but rather a single payer system like those used all over the world. How fragile can your freedoms be. If they can vaporize in the presence of good health care.. Of course we can argue the straw man ..

Ideology.

TK continues…

Absolute Freedom does exist. It is just not one that you will endure or endorse....

It’s called Isolation.

If your freedom is so absolute. How can you express it without imposing un-freedom on others?? Can you affect your own ends. Without affecting my ends?

What if you fail in your quest to your ends. Is any obligation imposed on me? The fact that I must, or must not, watch you struggle? Should it re-enforce my freedom.

Make me laugh. Make me sad? If it makes me do anything.. Am I really free?

I most certainly do not recognize any absolute about a freedom such as that..

The fact that there must be winners and losers. Does not mean the process is unfair.

It is the methods used to determine the winners and losers that determines the fairness..

Now if you don’t like the process. Then you are free to go or stay.. Just cause no harm..

Better to have one choice in health care…..

Than, to not have a choice, because you are excluded.

That’s Why America is standing proud at #37... Tens of millions of Americans, excluded from any form of health care, other than life support.. And the duration of that life support, determined by committee..

So much for the idea that Universal health care takes away your power of Choice. America’s health Care power of choice is denied because of financial ability.

I have had broken bones. Hepatitis, herniated disks, torn muscles. Spondyliotheisis, syringomyelia, cancer, fibromylecia. And all the normal sicknesses. Many things that could have killed me. So I consider myself quite lucky.

But luck is no way to run a health care system..

Jun 28, 2009 at 07:06 PM : tkozy, could you...

tkozy, could you kindly define "rich" in the context of your opinion? I've seen bloggers here deem $80,000.00 a year "rich."

So, for you, is that the amount? Is it anything over $100,000.00? Or Obama's magical $250,000.00?

Just asking before I say anything; assuming that anything I contribute is welcome ; )

Jun 28, 2009 at 07:06 PM : And by the way,...

And by the way, Michael Jackson's family, and the rest of the world, would have FREAKED OUT if he hadn't been taken to a hospital first. Lawsuits a-flyin' there, and everyone knew it.

If that's what you mean by "rich", well, then, I hope that answers the question. This is an extreme case of "rich" , or really, rather, "not-so-rich." Isn't he over $400 million in debt?

This is "fame" not "wealth". There's a big difference.

Jun 28, 2009 at 07:06 PM : You are listening to...

You are listening to lies. Where have you gotten that 6 month figure? Where is the proof. Where are the statistic?

I have been listening to my cousins in Canada - and they should know, they live it.

It is a system that is accepted in every industrialized nation in the World. It is a system that works. doesn't work all that well now does it.

That’s Why America is standing proud at #37... Tens of millions of Americans, excluded from any form of health care, other than life support.. And the duration of that life support, determined by committee.. and who do you think is going to determine care for us? A COMMITTEE

As far as I know, anybody can go to an emergency treatment center and get treated, the illegals do it every day. There are many, whom we don't hear about, who get major illnesses taken care of - excluding pregnancy. But then there are those who even get that taken care of also - welfare. You did get blue cross to pay - you took the steps to make it so. Others (in that situation) can do that as well if they want to.

TK...............please continue

Jun 28, 2009 at 07:06 PM : You will never...

You will never convince someone who's been able to con a company into giving them these overpriced insurance scams that it's a good idea... until they lose their job.

With this economy, it could happen sooner than you think. Practically no working stiff could afford insurance with a pre-existing condition or certain indicators without corperate help, which would not be nessesary if the cost of insurance premiums had not increased at 250% of the inflation rate since 1984.

Jun 28, 2009 at 07:06 PM : FWIW, we pay privately...

FWIW, we pay privately on two separate policies with self-employed status. Is it expensive? Yes. I'd like to see an alternative BUT I DO NOT LIKE OBAMA'S ALTERNATIVE. I'm really not entirely sure what it is, and I don't think he knows either.

Sorry for shouting.

Jun 28, 2009 at 07:06 PM : Vanity, 250 grand is...

Vanity,
250 grand is the low level of wealthy that I am speaking of.
That’s 5 grand a week.
$1000.00/working day.
$125/hour
In today’s world a couple can do fine on 5 grand a month. Most don’t do that much.
Granted that if you buy a million dollar home. Your budget would be stretched.
But in my opinion a person with a 5 grand a week income could manage. They could move down, they could sell 2 cars. And in that way survive most medical emergencies.

In most but not all cases. They would not have to suffer bankruptcy.
They would not be forced onto the public dole.

It is claimed that Jackson had 400 million in debt.
But he also had ½ interest with Sony on a 1 billion dollar Beetles music collection.
So even if no one was playing his records He was drawing a huge income from that collection.
And outside America. He was selling a huge amount of his songs.
The Sony music collection would cover all his debt.
And he was the largest selling performer in the history of the world.

His 50 show London gig sold out in days.

Jun 28, 2009 at 07:06 PM : Pitters, I am from...

Pitters,
I am from Minot North Dakota. I am aware of number of Canadians who are perfectly happy with their program,.
I can tell you without a doubt that Canadians come to Minot to shop at the WalMart.
But they do not come to seek medical care.

It took over 20 years for my syringomtyelia to be diagnosed. So your fictitious 6 month figure sounds petty to me. It was not diagnosed until I started on Medicare.
Prior to that I had what was considered premium medical insurance. I saw the best Doctors in town. Yet no diagnoses.

I was helped by a young doctor just 3 years out of school.
She diagnosed me the first appointment I had with her.
I was on Medicare at that time.
But again I am going to tell you something you don’t want to hear.

Every doctor I saw within the public system. Was available to me with in the Medicare system.

Yes anybody can go to the Emergency room But the care is only free for the indigent.

If you have over $3500 in savings for a burial expense. You are not indigent.
If you have jewelry other than a wedding ring or family heirloom You are not indigent,
If you have more than one car. You are not indigent.
A income over $1000/month means you will have to spend your income down below that level on medical expenses. Before you become eligible for Medical.
The list goes on.
Emergency room treatment is not free.

Insurance companies have a committee that determines your coverage. They will determine if further care will help you. They will determine how many days in the hospital will help you. They will decide if you need to be in a nurses care facility. Or if you need to be in a hospice.

You have yet to describe to me a single complaint that Americans do not suffer under our current private system.

Under our current system If you live long enough.
Even the wealthiest people will die in poverty.

It is my guess you have not experienced someone close to you suffering from an illness such as Almeihzer's . An illness that can linger for 20 years.

Jun 28, 2009 at 08:06 PM : Yes anybody...

Yes anybody can go to the Emergency room But the care is only free for the indigent.

and all the illegals even if they have jobs and lie as most get paid in cash under the table. Possibly the honest citizens get the shaft simply because they are honest.

It is my guess you have not experienced someone close to you suffering from an illness such as Almeihzer's . An illness that can linger for 20 years.

My mother died from alzheimers TK. We sold her house to pay for her care in a private home. She had medicare and secure horizons - we managed. So, dear sir, DO NOT presume to know what I have or have not been through.

Jun 28, 2009 at 08:06 PM : I can guarantee you...

I can guarantee you that under the government run Medicare system I have received the best medical care available in Kern County.

All for a 100 dollar/month premium and a small copay.

With out a doubt I would be dead today if not for a government run medical system,. (VA, Medicare)

No, you don't have the government to thank. You have the thousands of people who paid taxes into the system and never got back what they put in. You put in meager amounts, you took out more than you put in..You didn't die, but other people did so you could get "your" healthcare.

Jun 28, 2009 at 08:06 PM : Your right. ...

Your right. Just let the poor people die. Economic darwinism is the way to go.

Poor people don't deserve to live. That's just...socialist!

Jun 28, 2009 at 08:06 PM : Actually, JF, the poor...

Actually, JF, the poor probably get better care the most others - except the really rich. It is usually the "middle class" that falls thru the cracks. You are in the military - how do you like your health care? My daughter (Marine husband) thinks it sucks and her hubby is a Lt Col! She says it is a bit better back east as opposed to Calif but it still sucks. When I was married to a Marine (1960's) the military health care was the best, not so now I guess.

Jun 28, 2009 at 08:06 PM : Pitters, As I said....

Pitters,

As I said. Medicare along with the HMO option is a excellent form of care. That’s what I use except with Health Net.
Now you would have been forced to sell your mothers home if you were to receive MediCal. (unless she had a surviving spouse or dependant child.)
You were not forced to sell the home because of Medicare.

So you have had an excellent experience with a single payer system.
What is your complaint?

As far as the illegals.

If it were not for criminal employers. There would be no illegals in America.

\The prove is in the pudding.
As the economy shrank and the authorities cracked down. The number of ilegals has been reduced dramatically.

Good for Obama that he is going to really crack down on the criminal employers.

Jun 28, 2009 at 08:06 PM : Mexico, You are...

Mexico,

You are really dense.
We have discussed this before.
All private insurance companies make a profit because they are betting that you will die before they pay out more than you paid in.

You see Mexico. It kind of works like a Casino. The casino will eventually go broke if they don’t win more than they lose.

GET IT?

The insurance company is out to make money. They are not out to get you healthy.

Well except they hope you stay healthy and paying your premiums. Until you dive off of a tower, into a empty pool.

Jun 28, 2009 at 09:06 PM : I didn't say I...

I didn't say I was forced to sell my moms house because of medicare TK. However, medicare would not pay for her care in a private home as long as she had assets (her home). She had no spouse. OH I could have put her in a medicare home - places I saw I would not take my dead dog. So to afford a private care/private pay home we had to sell her home and I don't regret it for one minute - that money took care of her until she passed. There were many things medicare and secure horizons did not pay for that we used that money for as well TK. So, until YOU have been in that position do not presume to lecture me ok.

So you have had an excellent experience with a single payer system.

NO, the "single payer plan" did not work. WE paid they did not because we would not do it THEIR way, i.e. a medicare hovel.

Jun 28, 2009 at 09:06 PM : Pitters, You sure...

Pitters,
You sure know a lot of angry bitter people.
A good friend of mine is a Captain- Doctor in the Navy. She is a pediatrician and has made a career of the Navy. She loves it and she loves her patients.
I spent 7 ½ years in the military. I received excellent care.

You have changed a lot in the years you have been posting here.
You don’t seem to find happiness in the way you used to.
I learned to expect that from Mexico. He is just a old bitter hateful man.
That’s not what I expected from you.

Jun 28, 2009 at 09:06 PM : Pitters, If Medicare...

Pitters,

If Medicare did not pay at least a portion of her medical bills. You need to get a lawyer.

Medicare is not for nursing home care,( max 100 days I think). But neither is any other health insurance. you can get insurance that covers extended care in a convalescence home. But it is not covered in private health insurance plans.

My point about poverty was in reference to actual medical care. Care that is covered by Medicare.

The extended care nursing home insurance will still be available under the Obama plan. But just like you mother. Most people never purchase such a plan.

Jun 28, 2009 at 09:06 PM : I get angry TK when...

I get angry TK when people try to tell me how wonderful something is and I know for a fact it is not.

The military health care is not what it used to be. I didn't say they don't get good care but it is run like an HMO now and is nothing near what it was in the 60's. I didn't say it was the whole military - the Marines are what I know about. Possibly the Army & Navy are different. All I know is my daughter has nodules on her thyroid and every time she goes in she gets someone different and every time that person gives her a different drug and a try this, thank you good-bye - no further tests to even see if they are cancerous or not - when she requested to see the same doctor she had seen before she had to wait 2 months. Her medication ran out and she could not get anymore until she saw the doctor! The thyroid symptoms got worse again until she could get back to the doctor and get another prescription.Friday they finally ran some more blood tests after a year. So yes I'm angry and No you so called nationalized health care will not work - it will be worse.

What's to be happy about in light of the socialization of the United States of America? OH, and there are many Canadians coming over to the states for medical help they cannot get in Canada unless they want to wait 6 months - and THAT is a fact.

It is my guess you have not experienced someone close to you suffering from an illness such as Almeihzer's

YOU made me very angry with that comment. How dare you presume to KNOW what anyone else has gone through. YOU don't.

Jun 28, 2009 at 09:06 PM : Pitters, I presumed...

Pitters,

I presumed that because you did not know that private health insurers do not pay for nursing home care either. Yet you complain about Medicare.

I know people who complain about doctors.

My daughter doesn't like the doctor that discovered my syringomyelia. I had Medicare, She a teacher had the teachers plan. We both had the same Physician. We both had different opinions.

I went over 20 years in the private system that you find so godly. And I was undiagnosed for over 20 years.

Because of the flattened nerves in my spinal cord over those 20 years. I will suffer nerve pain for the rest of my life.

A single payer doctor. That my daughter does not like. Is my medical Saint.

She got me the prompt medical care that has allowed me to walk.

Jun 28, 2009 at 09:06 PM : TK: it is a little...

TK: it is a little late for a lawyer - my mom passed in 1998. and who the hell can afford nursing care home policies? I've looked into them. When I had my mom at my house WE had to pay the $25 per hour (minimum 10 hours a day as we both worked) for the in home care person - medicare paid for nothing. Medicare would have paid for a nursing home if it was one of THEIR accepted homes. However, as I said, those homes are nasty - and yes I know first hand, my daughter is an RN and she worked in one in L.A.

Jun 28, 2009 at 09:06 PM : TK: good for...

TK: good for you - you're a happy camper with what you have. I'm a happy camper with what I have.

Jun 28, 2009 at 09:06 PM : Pitters, ...

Pitters,

I had secure horizons and Medicare prior to Health Net. They both pay for the Medical care. Just not the nursing home care for over the 100 days or so. that's no differ ant than private health plans.

Downtown Mercy hospital just closed their nursing home facility. I know People that stayed there. It was acceptable. yes it was an older building. But the whole hospital at that time was a old brick building.

In the 70's I retrofitted convalescent homes with fire sprinkler systems. I worked in a hundred homes. And yes some were nasty. I made sure to report them when I saw them.

But county homes are generally afflicted with the worst of the worst patients. Not just sick. but quad amputees and blind. that sort of disabled. Mentally troubled. Everything but the insane.

In home care was provided me after both of my surgeries by Health Net.

Of course there are limits. You have said yourself the nursing home policies are unaffordable by most. They are actually a poor bet. heart attacks and strokes strike so many. and even cancer patients remain home for a great deal of time. the 100 day limit providing for most of the care needed.

Jun 28, 2009 at 09:06 PM : Pitters, ...

Pitters,

Then do as Obama says. Stay with your plan. But don't try to derail the rest of those who are not as pleased as you.

Those that have no plan at all.

Jun 28, 2009 at 09:06 PM : Steve Jobs and liver...

Steve Jobs and liver transplants~ while money did not buy him a liver it didn't exactly hurt either.

BTW~ I am glad he did.

Jun 29, 2009 at 03:06 AM : You are in the...

You are in the military - how do you like your health care? My daughter (Marine husband) thinks it sucks and her hubby is a Lt Col!

I think it is awesome! Granted I was poor before I joined the army (with no insurance) so that is my reference point. I was out of the army for a while and had private insurance and it sucked. I paid a lot for a little. I have my issues with Tricare (as would probably be the case with any program) but it's better than any other insurance I've had. I came into the army with serious dental issues and was treated by a team of dentist (one of them being the top expert in his field and a COL in the army). I had bone implants in my jaw and several other procedures in a timely manner to save my teeth from falling out of my head. What would have cost me thousands of dollars (without the one of the best dentist) was no charge. My youngest child was born on the base and it was another awesome experience. My chain of command came in and I got a signed letter from the post commander (the General Odierno). I felt like the army actually gave a crap about my family. My middle child was born in a civilian hospital 1000 miles away from my duty station and there was no charge (even for those ugly $50 socks) from Tricare.

I'm currently stationed at a post with Soldiers, Marines, and a few sailors we all get the same treatment here. There is no difference. There may be different issues at a Marine Corps base because I believe they use Navy personnel but I can't see really why it would "suck".

My experiences with government ran health care have been positive overall. My oldest was born in Canada (I even named him after his doctor). My experience with the private health care has been a beaureacratic mess which feels like a stall tactic to pay bills. I feel like nothing more than a dollar sign or a way for the hospital to make money. health care reform (i guess that's the best generic word for what we're doing) is going to be expensive but I just don't see why the cost should be an issue when we can spend lagre amounts of money on travelling around the world spending billions in the name of "freedom, democracy, and fighting terrorism". What's important to us as a society? Bombs or band-aids?

Jun 29, 2009 at 03:06 AM : Actually, JF, the poor...

Actually, JF, the poor probably get better care the most others - except the really rich. It is usually the "middle class" that falls thru the cracks.

Personally I think the term middle class is an outdated term used more to divide working folks from the extreme poor. We're all trying to eat and be comfortable. Right now everyone is falling through the cracks except for a few. Everyone is one major illness (preventable or not) from economic disaster which equals death in the US. If the proverbial middle class is falling through the cracks, then that obviously is a problem. How about we offer some solutions to solve it? The current system we have has been a failure at addressing this. I think there is an inherent problem in believing the private sector is the answer when there loyalty is to profits instead of people. They will kill a few for the sake of the bottom line. Even people with coverage are being denied benefits (or being sent through a bureaucratic mess) and dying.

In America, some people have coverage but don't have coverage.

In poor ass broke ass Cuba, everybody does. Is there a problem with that?

Jun 29, 2009 at 06:06 AM : I can tell you without...

I can tell you without a doubt that Canadians come to Minot to shop at the WalMart.
But they do not come to seek medical care.

I'm not sure why they would come to shop at WalMsrt beings how Canada has WalMarts. My wife is from Canada and I can name plenty who think their health care system sucks. When you have to wait weeks and months to get surgery I don't think it is better. We travel back to see her family every year and hear stories.

We already have government run health care its called Medicare and MediCaid. And they both are about broke. Yea the government runs it better alright!!

The system is broke but I don't think government is going to make it much better. And the 40 million who are un-insured how many are illegally here?

Jun 29, 2009 at 07:06 AM : We already have...

We already have government run health care its called Medicare and MediCaid.

Medicare works just fine; in fact it runs better than private insurance. Fix Medicaid (which is contaminated by state involvement) by folding it into Medicare, open it to everyone and call it the Public Option.

The system is broke

We're making progress. Folks are beginning to see the obvious. Now we just have to get past twenty years of Republican lies about health care.

Jun 29, 2009 at 09:06 AM : Medicare works just...

Medicare works just fine; in fact it runs better than private insurance.

Yea sure it does rf thats why it's almost broke right along with SS.

The annual report, issued yesterday by the trustees who monitor the fiscal health of the Medicare and Social Security programs, said the trust fund for the health insurance system for the elderly will run out of money in 2018 -- two years sooner than predicted a year ago and 12 years sooner than had been anticipated when President Bush first took office.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/01/AR2006050101448.html

Jun 29, 2009 at 09:06 AM : Yea sure it does rf...

Yea sure it does rf thats why it's almost broke right along with SS.

No, the reason Medicare has financial problems is there aren't enough people in it. I have seen first-hand that the quality of care available under Medicare is excellent, and it's a documented fact that it delivers that care at a lower cost than private insurance does.

That's why the insurance companies have brick-lined BVD's over it and are pulling the strings of their puppet Senators to keep a public option away from the public.

The reason why Social Security *MAY* have some problems at some undetermined time in the future is that it's been systematically stolen from by Republican politicians.

Jun 29, 2009 at 09:06 AM : I am willing to listen...

I am willing to listen to what Obama has planned. A real plan. I have great insurance, but my employer pays a lot for it. Just over a grand a month for me and my 3 family members and i have a $600 family deductible. Above that, there is no cost. I get sick, I go to the doctor of my choosing. I don't want that to change.

I had Kaiser for years and usually had a pleasant experience with it. It's just the inflexibility of it I didn't like.

Jun 29, 2009 at 09:06 AM : I am willing to listen...

I am willing to listen to what Obama has planned.

At this point we're just looking at what Congress is proposing. That's the way the system works.

I am very interested to see how hard Obama will fight for the public option, however.

Jun 29, 2009 at 09:06 AM : I can't...

I can't help thinking that if ANYONE in a westernized country is waiting around for ANY medical procedure, it's because demand exceeds supply. In other words, lots of people need medical procedures and there are only a few doctors and hospitals around to supply those procedures. Why else would there be a waiting list?

It's just like organ transplants. Lots of people are waiting around for organs, but there's only a few organs to go around. If there were a lot of organ donations-enough for everybody, there wouldn't be any waiting.

We don't seem to be waiting around for needed medical procedures in this country right now (well, those of us who have INSURANCE don't) so the only way there could suddenly be this huge, long wait for medical procedures under universal health care is if there are uninsured people out there right now who NEED medical procedures but aren't getting them. We are, in essence, throwing a bunch of people out of line right from the get go. "No insurance? Get lost!"

Or in other words, "I deserve this heart transplant more than you do because I have insurance and you don't. Suck eggs and die, loser! Mine MIne MINE MINE MINE!!!!"

I think all of this debate is revealing what our REAL problem is--we don't have enough doctors and hospitals in this country. That fact is true now, and it will be true later, whether we have universal health care or not.

Jun 29, 2009 at 10:06 AM : Steve...

Steve Jobs and liver transplants~ while money did not buy him a liver

Actually, his money did buy him the liver.

Jobs used his money to get into the Nashville clinic and then used more money to jump to the top of the waiting line.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-steve-jobs-0629,0,260891.story

Jun 29, 2009 at 10:06 AM : Actually, his money...

Actually, his money did buy him the liver.

Glad to see that we still have a modicum of capitalism in this country. I much prefer people to pay for their healthcare needs, rather than bitch and moan that the government won't take care of them while they shine their nice shiney new rims for their lowrider...

Jobs needed a liver. He didn't wait for the insurance or government to pay for it. He emptied his bank account and paid for it. And people have a problem with this??

Jun 29, 2009 at 10:06 AM : The doctor who saved...

The doctor who saved my late wife's life back in 2002 lost his job a few years later and the transplant program shut down when he performed a liver transplant on a line-jumper. I think he got a raw deal, but it was a more serious infraction than Jobs' case.

We need more donors. Period.

Jun 29, 2009 at 11:06 AM : Ron says"Jobs...

Ron says"Jobs needed a liver. He didn't wait for the insurance or government to pay for it. He emptied his bank account and paid for it. And people have a problem with this??"

I hate to clutter up your "Hurray for Capitalism" speech with silly things like facts and figures..

A liver transplant costs around $ 519,600. The estimated net worth of Steve Jobs is $5.4 billion.

I'd hardly call that "emptying out his bank account". I doubt many here would. Except for Bartley perhaps :-)

Jun 29, 2009 at 11:06 AM : It wouldn't...

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if insurance paid the bulk of the cost, too. I'd think a corporate exec has pretty good insurance.

What Jobs did was spend money an insurance company wouldn't have, to get himself in the shortest line (or lines) he could for a transplant.

Jun 29, 2009 at 12:06 PM : It...

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if insurance paid the bulk of the cost, too.

But you have no proof, as usual...Now why would the insurance company want to spend money on Jobs liver??? I thought they were in the business to make money??

Jun 29, 2009 at 12:06 PM : Does anyone here...

Does anyone here really think Brain Dead Ted sits in any waiting lines for his healthcare???

Jun 29, 2009 at 12:06 PM : But you have no proof,...

But you have no proof, as usual...

I would be surprised if Jobs *DIDN'T* have very good medical insurance paid for by his employer. Why shouldn't I be? Do you think, given the choice, Jobs would self-insure?

Now why would the insurance company want to spend money on Jobs liver???

Because unlike the majority of their clients, Jobs would have the money to hurt them in court?

Jun 29, 2009 at 01:06 PM : ".....

"...What scares the medical insurance groups is that they will have to reduce overhead to compete with the 3 to 4 percent overhead in the VA, Medicare ,Medical field. Today's medical insurers operate in the 30% to 40% overhead range..."

I had to chuckle when I read this.

I have a close friend who is a vet, he has been to the VA hospital in LA four times now for a recurring cyst on his leg. On his first visit, he was given a 90 day supply of antibiotic - even though there was no culture taken to discern the proper antibiotic to use.

When the cyst only grew larger (big surprise there!), he returned to the VA hospital and he was admitted for a two-week stay. He was told his leg would have to be amputated due to the spreading infection. He refused to allow his leg to be amputated and a culture was taken from the cyst and the proper antibiotic given. His leg healed and he went back to work after a short convalescence.

A couple months later, the cyst returned and he went back to the VA hospital where his initial visit care was repeated. After a week, he returned to the VA hospital and INSISTED the cyst be surgically removed. So now, finally, the cyst is gone - for good.

Low overhead does not equal quality care.

In my humble opinion, the cost of medical care has risen proportionally to the number of malpractice lawsuits. It's common knowledge most malpractice suits less than $100,000 are settled out of court to avoid actually litigating it in court - even if it is certain the doctor would win. It is "cheaper" to settle the suit than to fight it. The lawyers know this and encourage lawsuits for almost anything relating to medical care.

Twenty years ago if a child bumped his head on a table, the parent would be instructed to observe the child closely and return to the emergency room if necessary. Now, because of the threat of malpractice, this same child with a bump on his head will receive a CAT scan or MRI and a whole battery of tests - EVEN IF THERE IS NO INDICATION IT IS NECESSARY - simply to have a defensible position should the parents decide to sue.

That's a LOT of money wasted on unnecessary tests that could be put to better use treating other patients.

Jun 29, 2009 at 01:06 PM : Fat Boy Ted...

Fat Boy Ted

dosen't wait in lines, there are lines of Dr.s waiting on him.

Jun 29, 2009 at 02:06 PM : dosen't wait in...

dosen't wait in lines, there are lines of Dr.s waiting on him.

Neither did Michael Jackson. Got all the medical attention he could pay for.

Low overhead does not equal quality care.

No, it doesn't. But the VA has been in the forefront of several medical care advances.

Jun 29, 2009 at 03:06 PM : CurtDalton,...

CurtDalton,

I completely agree with you about the severely lacking system in place at the VA. My fiance has been to the VA in Los Angeles five times for various tests regarding a injury he received when he was blown off of a flight deck. We have not received the results of any test (MRI's, etc) that were taken over six months ago. Every time we went, the doctor told us they didn't have the results from the old test and we would have to wait. We went back for his last appointment and were told there was a problem with the doctor and we would have to take all these tests over again. Not to mention that it takes a lot of money to have to drive up there all the time (when the VA tells you to be there, don't try to reschedule cause that will cause a two month delay). There is a shuttle here in Bakersfield but it only goes up on certain days and we can't get the Los Angeles VA to schedule appointments for those days to help with finances.

We recently went to a meeting with other veterans and their significant others where the VA had hired a research group to look into feelings about the way the VA works. All of the 30+ people there were extremely unhappy with the care they receive, from problems with prosthetics to incorrect diagnosis. We get scheduled for appointments with no idea what they are for. We went to Fresno once for an MRI appointment (at least, that's what the VA here told us it was for) and when we got there, they had my fiance see a dermatologist for athlete's foot. Are you kidding? We wouldn't have driven down there for that!

This, on top of the numerous scares with HIV and problematic cancer treatment, along with the Congressional Review of the VA and it's procedures, is why I don't agree with a public plan. The government can't even treat our vets right!

Jun 29, 2009 at 03:06 PM : is why...

is why I don't agree with a public plan.

The insurance companies certainly believe folks would like a public plan. I would, too. I've seen it up close and it works.

Jun 29, 2009 at 03:06 PM : RF, Okay, how about...

RF,

Okay, how about this...I don't agree with a government run plan. Because I've seen it up close and it doesn't work.

Jun 29, 2009 at 04:06 PM : Luckily, you can still...

Luckily, you can still go the private route.

Jun 29, 2009 at 04:06 PM : JFrancais, Yes, I am...

JFrancais,

Yes, I am lucky. I worked hard to get a job that provided insurance and I've worked at that job since I was 18. My parents taught me that I'd have to take care of myself, so I'm lucky that I did at such a young age.

Jun 29, 2009 at 04:06 PM : Why do you...

Why do you put words in his mouth. Why do you change his words to fit your agenda?

because he lies, and we are smart enough to see where he is going with this. this is actually a great blog for capitalism. work hard , and you will be rewarded

compared to

dont work, and schlep by

Jun 29, 2009 at 04:06 PM : A lot of people do...

A lot of people do "take care of themselves" and still lose in this system. There's something wrong with this system.

Jun 29, 2009 at 04:06 PM : because he...

because he lies,

So *YOU* lie about what he says to fit your preconceived (and ignorant) notions. Because you can't find any lie to point to.

Jun 29, 2009 at 04:06 PM : JFrancais, I agree...

JFrancais,

I agree that people get screwed by the system, I guess my anger comes from those that voluntarily don't work and use the system "because they can." I feel like if I have had to work 10 years and will have to work another 32 to provide for myself and my family, any who can, should try to provide for themselves. I agree that the system needs overhauling but I am not sure the options being presented are the way to go.

I'm sure from reading my posts you can understand my wariness with regards to a government controlled plan.

Jun 29, 2009 at 04:06 PM : pretty weak there...

pretty weak there RF. now your saying obama has never lied ?? Because you can't find any lie to point to.

my dumbest dogs ass is smarter than that. find out why socialized medicine countries like canada and England are moving away from the model YER BOY wants to stick us with

honestly...too much time in the blogosphere makes one in desperate need of a reality check.

....next your going to attack my livelyhood....just like any loser would

Jun 29, 2009 at 04:06 PM : I definitely...

I definitely understand which is why I think a dual system (public v. private) is a healthy compromise. If it turns out that private industry is meeting the needs of the American people then everyone wins.

My experience is different from yours but yours is no less valid. At the end of the day, we both agree things are seriously screwed up and something needs to be done. What is the answer? I wish I knew.

Jun 29, 2009 at 04:06 PM : JFrancais,...

JFrancais,

I think a public system could be an option if there was some type of check and balance to make sure it is working fairly and not causing an overwhelming rise in costs to those who don't use the program. My concern is always if the costs of health insurance don't go down, but those on a public plan get a discount, the health care industry will try to recoup those costs elsewhere, which would more than likely be those with private plans.

Do I want people to have to go without health care? No. No I think the system needs to be fixed? Yes. Do I think the rest of us should buckle down and live within a certain means just to help provide for those who can't provide for themselves? No. I mean, if I work hard for my money, I should be able to buy the car I like, the house I want, etc. I shouldn't have to live below my means just to support others. I think that something needs to be done to balance it out...maybe tax cuts for those who are having to pay more to take care of others? To be honest, I have no idea how to fix the system and I don't think the government does either. It's too bad people can't work to come up with joint solutions instead of making it so politicized that no one can agree on anything.

By the way, thank you for being so nice about us seeing different perspectives but the same problem. =-)

Jun 29, 2009 at 04:06 PM : I'm convinced...

I'm convinced that if we had the poitical will we could change it (i.e. have a government based solution) without rasing taxes. I believe we spend a lot of money where there is political will. We've spent billions in the name of defense and given aid to foreign nations when political leaders deem that it is in the nations interest. For once, the health care issue has momentum and is being addressed so that's at least a start. I don't think politicans really have an answer, either since they are so used to dealling with interest groups and letting them do the talking.

Jun 29, 2009 at 04:06 PM : Not quite,...

Not quite, learnem. I'm saying *YOU* can't find a single lie.

But you're not very good at analyzing information, so it's arguably much harder for you to do so than for me. Probably not fair for me to expect anything but refluxive parroting from FoxNews out of you.

See, I didn't even *HAVE* to attack your "livelihood." And as for your dumbest dog, he's arguably smarter than the guy who feeds him.

Jun 29, 2009 at 05:06 PM : Witters...

Witters

How much do you pay for your medical insurance premiums???? I bet most if not all of your insurance is provided by the taxpayers of Calfiornia. I know mine is. Maybe it's time we provided everyone with what WE get.